What should the game do different?

Rubatin · June 2017

Just a discussion thread about the game, starting with a few questions.

What issues did you have in the past server?

What do you think made players leave?

Was the game too difficult?

Is a new start going to resolve anything?

What should the game do to fix said issues?

GaleWeaver · June 2017

"What issues did you have in the past server?"

The economy was trash, the game was massively p2w, and grinding was basically an all day chore. Also the server location was changed, but not much can be done about that I suppose.

"What do you think made players leave?"

Mostly the points listed above. The market was controlled by a few people who were very heavily time invested in the game, and it was pretty impossible to get anywhere as a new player.

"Was the game too difficult?"

Absolutely.

"Is a new start going to resolve anything?"

Probably not without some pretty massive changes to the core structure of the game. At the very least a new start will reset the market, but the game is flawed in so many other areas that it honestly might not be enough. LT was really inaccessible to casual players.

AugustineVii · June 2017

@GaleWeaver I for one disagree with some of those points. The economy was harsh but made improvements. The game DID have p2w aspects with beta runes and the stone/compass, that i doubt anyone really enjoyed, you are right about that. Grinding was not an all day chore lol, at most on my journey to 220 during the demigod level up event, i would spent at most 3 hours grinding, it wasn't bad unless you made it bad. I've been through worst grinding systems in games.. The server relocation did only cause overall more issues when it comes to lag. The market in my opinion was very accessible if yes, you took the time to understand it. Was it great? Absolutely not, but was it horrible? Not quite, it had room for improvement. LaTale is far from difficult. Some things just took time in my opinion. But the hand outs they gave you up until 200 made the game far too easy. Especially easy from what it used to be. Lastly i consider myself casual. I played to have fun. Managed to become 220 and make plenty ely by my own means and methods. It really wasn't difficult.

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As for your questions @rubatin

1.) One of the biggest issues i saw on the previous server was lack of communication overall. Players wouldn't talk to one another and GMs seemed to want nothing to do with us for the most part. Parties were super clique and hard to come by unless you were pretty known. The lag, was an issue; especially after the server move, but it was just something you had to deal with. Another issue was honesty, people did NOT trust merchants and i feel that was rightful judgement, although most of the "merchants" were players who mostly invested their time into making ely instead of grinding. Also, beta runes were not a fun addition to be honest. I feel all runes should be equivalent in stats they provide and not have a major gap because one was bought with real money and one with in game money. I can say i really did not like that. But alphas were still in the end an option.

2.) I think players left due to lack of commitment along side lack of anything really interesting going on. The "events" we had were so bland and boring! The easter egg event was the most fun i think anyone had doing an event in a long time on ogplanet's latale. I will be honest and say, after awhile i felt there really was no point in logging on. It was the same thing everyday, no excitement. No random GM events or word from them for that matter. So i felt like leaving too at some points.

3.) I already gave my thoughts on this, but for short i will repeat. no lol. Its not hard, at all. A little confusing before you get the hang of things, but not hard. Hands outs until level 200. No. Not hard at all haha. Just takes time and effort after that really.

4.) I'm very optimistic so i feel if we all go into this with the right attitude i am certain we can make this game great again. I hope the communication between the GMs and the community can stay very strong, players can be respectful to one another and overall just more helpful and generous like it used to be. Being negative and bringing the game down helps nobody, but you can always try and make a difference i think. It's all mentality!

I hope to see you in game!

ferociouspets · June 2017

I thought that leveling choices were extremely limited from 200-220 since you basically camp Quartz Cave (until Aurora and some new dungeons were released, but the stay in Quartz Cave discouraged me from leveling any further).
I always wondered why the acquired EXP for instanced dungeons in the early 200s range (like Roads, Odin, etc.) was so low, excluding Sky Coli. Many early 200'ers were discouraged from actually partying together to conquer these dungeons because of how bad the EXP was, and buying leech was far more favorable since the main purpose of these dungeons is either for Legends quests or gear.

AugustineVii · June 2017

@ferociouspets Those dungeons were not made for exp. Other than sky coli. Bollywood, Quartz Cave, and Jade forest are the best grinding spots for level 200. At 204. You can throw mysterious hall into the mix as well. At 207 you have aurora as well. At 211 there's city hall. Now if you want an extra bit of exp, you can throw MD into the mix as well. But the dungeons i just listed are the best 200+ for grinding. Grinding at Quartz Cave and Aurora Forest don't make much impact after reaching about 215ish. So grinding them daily for hours is a waste of resources. But saying Odin and Roads are low on exp and discouraging lower players from grinding seems a bit far-fetched. Those dungeons are meant for reputation and gearing up. Not for farming exp.

ferociouspets · June 2017

@AugustineVii I believe what you stated that dungeons, such as Odin and Roads, being intended for reputation and gear is a primary reason why no one really bothers doing these dungeons. It was extremely difficult to even find a party that isn't being carried by someone who's already acquired all best-in-slot gear to even clear these dungeons. Contrarily, dungeons such as Sky Coliseum provide huge EXP gains, as well allowing players to upgrade to the Sky Coli armor set. It wouldn't be unusual for Sky Coli to be camped by leechers should the EXP gained from each monster be reduced significantly. No one would go through the trouble of clearing Sky Coli daily just for some percentages, and simply rely on leech.
I mean, even if dungeons like Odin and Roads are just for the rep and gear, there still aren't many early 200'ers doing these dungeons because it might seem like a waste of time due to them being inefficient leveling places. It wouldn't hurt to make these dungeons slightly more rewarding considering how difficult they are for players without perfectly enchanted gear.

HenryMorrison · June 2017

Your points are really well put, as an on and off player I was, I really struggled to get to the spot I got mainly because the game ramped up the end game... lets call it difficulty for now, to a level where new players were unable to reach older players, even if they used a powerhouse class, but there is more...

1. The influx of new players lowered a lot as years passed, there were many factors that caused this going from the lack of advertisement for the game to the bad decisions OGP made over the years.
We can also drop in the problem that it actually was P2W, do not lie to yourselves, to actually play the game you require pets and you have to pay for pets, pets are the damage of players and you see people hoarding them in most game servers, but it wouldn't be a problem if we had better ways to access pets other than just gambling our lives with Infinity Chests and Boxes, LaDeck or flash sales, and you sure can get a good stock of Champion pets but they will run out at some point, and your damage with them.

2. Mentioned above, some of the decisions OGP took weren't... popular at all, but that also had an unseen side-effect, with players leaving the game, what was left was the most hardcore of the player base, leaving the community into the hands of elitists that would weight your value with how much damage you did or how much you had to sell. This is not all, the modification to the exp curve and the huge exp wall at level 200 really discouraged new players from continuing once they hit level 180, this is specially true for the most casual of players who just simply wanted to have fun or see what else the game had to offer, more when they could get to level 140 in a matter of hours.

3. Not that much if you knew what you were doing.

4. I am with @AugistineVil there, fresh starts are a good way to give a game new life and many players who didn't like what happened to the game get their hopes up for something different. As long as Papaya Play... play their cards well and give the game the treatment that it deserves (advertisement, events, constant updates), this could be the definitive version of NA LaTale, but we have to be a better community and help keep the game as friendly as it used to be years ago.

5. The best way to fix most of the issues players voice about the previous host is... to read what they are saying because if you ignore history, you are bound to repeat it. We don't want a perfect game, we just want a game we can enjoy and a host that doesn't see us just as sea animals... at least not all of the time.

Btw, why are these topics still popping? I know what happened just as much as the next guy but it's been 12 days now. I am curious about that.

Futanari · June 2017

Steps to a nice latale game

Start off enchant at 100% and have 90% actually be 90% not 10%. a person shouldnt have great fear of a enchant failing from something being 90% ever unless its the chance of getting cancer.

Make items not go boom from failing enchants/upgrading just lower the success by a small amount. Nothing is worse than having to slave over multiple broken equips that were just right for the pickins.

Make pets permanent and give them out whether with event or with quests in the game and still have some pets in fs (like the quest at dark moon castle that gives tengu except make it permanent)

Events that arent just log in for 1 hour for crappy gift you wont use. (pet stimulant)

This is a major one here:

After the release of demi and their weapon that levels up with them, it was MAJORLY convenient while leveling

Make every class have a weapon that levels up with you just like demi-god. Dont really have to have armor with it too. You can have the weapon styled after the old weapons like corala blades/gulliver guns/tigris crossbow/cherry spear etc...

Dont do events that use facebook and twitter stuff its honestly annoying.

Events where ALL players can benefit from and not just low levels or end gamers so end gamers dont body the low levels like hillary got bodied in the election.( Example: Highest level by the end of (insert date)/ or first to level 200.)

and lasty, eat ass.

Aegelweard · June 2017

I believe we already had a similar thread called "What would you add or change" but nevertheless, let's give this one a go.

What issues did you have in the past server?

a) Clique elitist parties. Since I lived most of my in-game life as a lone wolf there was absolutely no way for me to conquer such places us Palace, Canyon, Hidden Cave and Manastone Lab. I was making threads on forums, I was using server mics, I was asking my guild to carry me... All for nothing. Should I even tell you how unpleasant and bitter it was to realize that nobody will ever give you a hand; that you will never have a party to go with; that you are forever bond to buying leeches?

b) Never-ending farm for ely. Because item supply was artificially choked and minimized I had to run Ymir/Odin/Roads every single day to afford buying pets or exp boosters for my alt. But before I hit 220 on my main character it was even worse: I had to farm over 1b ely first, then I would stop farming, buy exp boosters and do Sky/Aurora/Rivera. Once I ran dry on ely I had to stop grinding and go back to farming.

What do you think made players leave?

a) Artificial difficulty. LaTale, owing to the behind the scenes conspirancy, was artificially made
a difficult game. GMs were chocking and cutting down supply of
necessary items such as pets, syrups, auxiliary exp and damage boosters.
I sincerely believe that the only reason they hosted Easter Egg event,
which was extremely generous in terms of rewards, was that they knew LT
is done for.

b) No player to GM communication. [GM]FlipSide was
playing Gods and peasants with the players and many left because of it.
He would first ban the players and then post PSA. No amount of new players would save OGP LT with this kind of client treatment.

Was the game too difficult?

It was not difficult in itself but it was made difficult. There were players pushing for "everything must be acquired by hard and tedious work" and [GM]FlipSide was stupid enough to listen to them.

Is a new start going to resolve anything?

It depends on two factors: a) what stance new GM team will choose and b) will the transferring players cling to their old mindset and clique parties.

What should the game do to fix said issues?

a) Friendly, open and welcoming community.

b) Open communication between GMs and the players.

c) Easy access to necessities.

d) Bring back [GA] team.

AugustineVii · June 2017

"@AugustineVii I believe what you stated that dungeons, such as Odin and Roads, being intended for reputation and gear is a primary reason why no one really bothers doing these dungeons. It was extremely difficult to even find a party that isn't being carried by someone who's already acquired all best-in-slot gear to even clear these dungeons. Contrarily, dungeons such as Sky Coliseum provide huge EXP gains, as well allowing players to upgrade to the Sky Coli armor set. It wouldn't be unusual for Sky Coli to be camped by leechers should the EXP gained from each monster be reduced significantly. No one would go through the trouble of clearing Sky Coli daily just for some percentages, and simply rely on leech.
I mean, even if dungeons like Odin and Roads are just for the rep and gear, there still aren't many early 200'ers doing these dungeons because it might seem like a waste of time due to them being inefficient leveling places. It wouldn't hurt to make these dungeons slightly more rewarding considering how difficult they are for players without perfectly enchanted gear."

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@ferociouspets if for you parties were such a big issue and you could not solo. Why not make self improvements? Why not take a couple days and go farm cards and codex to improve your base stats. A good foundation is always a great way to go. You're only talking about armor which is only a percentage of the game and your stats. By level 200 if you did take the time to collect at least half of your cards and codex. You should be able bodied enough to solo most of the midgame dungeons, such as degos, ymir, and odin. You're saying sky coli is camped by leechers, then find people you are willing to go with daily (which may be a challenge) but a party of 2 or 3 of you is fine enough. I'm sorry to say this, but you cant blame the game for that.

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@Futanari The demigod weapon is a double edge sword. Whilst it MAY be unbreakable. It's also a pain to deal with and EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE People seem to forget that the demigod weapon takes resources and A lot of ely with each upgrade and enchant. Paying 7m then 7.3m PER upgrade with 40% success rates, I didn't enjoy blowing 400m in a matter of 5 minutes to get +4 of each stat.. So asking for such a thing for all classes may discourage others because of how pricey it is to get there. I do feel we should have enchanting forgiveness that would keep a weapon or piece of armor from breaking a couple times. But i think that's where the line should be drawn. As a demigod, it was pretty bittersweet being in a position where your weapon couldn't break, but you couldn't collect your weapon in lab because well. It didn't exist, only making the looting that much more fun. As for the log in events... YES PLEASE MAKE THEM WORTHWHILE. 10 minutes of log in seems more than enough too.

Futanari · June 2017

Oh to clarify on the level weapon i mean just like the Goddess seres armor and weapon event from many moons ago. Not make them exactly like demi god just a simple weapon that levels with you and then you ditch it at high levels its just to get you from 1-190 or something like that.

AugustineVii · June 2017

You could easily farm (S) weapons instead. They are pretty easy to come by. But i see what you mean.

Rubatin · June 2017

@ferociouspets I feel like the problem there lies in early 200 players not wishing to gear at their own pace. To me, the game has it's own stopping points where you gear and then run dungeons as well as other things to strengthen yourself. When I was grinding to 220 I noticed lots of players 210~216 lacked in damage because they made leveling to the cap their main priority. Putting all that aside hitting level caps aren't really something that should be done in a week or two, they're supposed to take time.

@HenryMorrison I sort of agree that the game started to become a sort of "elite" player base. Do you think that the transfer will change this? Or would we just return to a separate groups of weak and strong? Also I didn't quite understand what the question was at the bottom of your post. I didn't really think there was a thread that actually addressed the issues that OGP / La tale currently had, if that's what you're asking.

@Futanari Seems like the issue lies in accessibility, which OGP really didn't do anything to help. I also hope that events are going to be something good this time around. Personally I hope for events that try and accelerate our progression, at midgame, I think that the developers as well as OGP have realized that veterans make most of their community, so they only focus on end game content.

@Aegelweard Well I would agree that OGP was making the game harder by cutting out supplies. It was most obvious when other LT versions would get events that we would never have. OGP probably thought depriving the community would make them spend more money, but it doesn't look like that idea worked out too well. Tight knit parties will always stay, even now that we will all be on the same playing field. Most of us have plans to rush to the top, and I think that will play a part in how the community shapes up to be.

@AugustineVii

I agree with what you said for the most part but I wonder where you get the idea that the market was accessible. Sometimes it takes days to find what you want and for a reasonable price, sometimes it won't show up at all unless you wait for the right time of year/month. (Pet rotations, gems, enchant events). Another minor issue I had was that 10% cut in the auction house. Considering there isn't really a way to "abuse" the auction it annoys me entering the auction and seeing people raise the prices of their items simply to compensate for the tax. Another issue I had was merchants having control over items that everyone needed. One example being damage syrups prior to the egg event. I remember checking the auction house and seeing a certain merchant selling them at ridiculous prices and having no choice but to buy them. Then again, this all goes back to accessibility and whether or not papaya decides to provide these in events and such.

@everyone essentially

Knowing that there will be no ely, could the game actually be more P2W then before? If the FS is kept near the same players who buy pets, runes, and other supplies there will have a massive advantage over the common player who doesn't spend.

Could the game lose accessibility? People were taught to hoard on OGP because they knew the game may not supply the items they had for a long time. Considering how many years the game had to create the market we had in La tale, could the market recovery from that?

Just some questions I came up with while reading over the replies, sorry if they seem a bit negative, I just think they should be addressed

AugustineVii · June 2017

@Rubatin See i never had some of these issues. I never used the auction house for one. It was a cluster of OP items, highly unnecessary. I see your points and you do make very good ones. As for the P2w comment, of course. Paying for convince is always going to put you ahead. You're paying for sped up progression basically. As for pets, i feel like there should always be other options to obtain them. OGP at the end started to give out free pets every now and again. If papaya could do the same that would be great, just a bit more frequent and in the form of events. For those not willing to buy them. I think latale could recover from what it was considering this is a reset. No one is going to have anything or have any ely to buy or sell things. So we are going to have to also, set our own prices. People will have to communicate on this so that its fair for everyone. I'm sure with time, it will work itself out. Considering many players including myself are losing billions upon billions, i see this as a good thing to be honest. Try to think positive a bit more, we all know there are looming issues but as a community, if we are honest and kind to one another, we can make this game easier for everyone. It just takes those first steps.

ferociouspets · June 2017

@AugustineVii It doesn't seem as if you're reading my most recent post carefully. I argued that if it weren't for the abnormally high EXP that Sky Coli gives, it would simply become a leech dungeon for gear (just like Roads and Odin). The only reason why casual players can find Sky Coli parties is due to the generous EXP that it rewards.
I cannot disagree with you that most early 200 players often lack essential increases to their stats such as Codex and Monster Cards, but even with these boosts, it's nearly impossible to solo these dungeons unless you're just decked out rich with godly enchanted items. When I played my second character, I already had most of my Codex and Monster Cards completed (I would say around 70-75%). Yet, even with the best-in-slot gear for my level with enchants(100+ stat, 120%+ crit, some enchanted gems, etc.), and lots of food buffs, it was still a huge challenge to go through these dungeons (such as Roads/Odin). It seems unreasonable for these dungeons to not at least grant some EXP that reflects their difficulty. And I'm not even saying that the EXP gained per run for these dungeons should comprise the majority of a leveling 200er, even like 0.3-5%/run with Prime is very reasonable seeing how Sky Coli can easily give 20% daily.

AugustineVii · June 2017

@ferociouspets That's why most people. Even "rich" players go with parties. We still ran these mid-game dungeons together because of convenience. Asking for more exp from them doesn't seem that big a deal. But it also isn't exactly necessary for dungeons that serve their purpose well enough already. Especially when these dungeons are also prominently used for ely farming. I personally feel if you cant solo odin or roads, there is no issue in grouping up because that's what a lot of people would do. I think you want convenience when it, for the dungeons in question, is not really necessary. I think they give enough as is. BUT as you are entitled to your opinion and i respect it. It would be great to get a couple percentages from odin or roads. Bottom line. What you're saying isn't a bad thing. It's just not really overly necessary. You know?

Chymes · June 2017

Just as a general thought I think one thing they could do to add transparency with the playerbase is do dev. Diary's that way we can actually know what is going on instead of always having to go on scavenger hunts to know what to expect next.

I would also advise looking into how SUCCESSFUL video game developers and managers interact with their communities in order to minimize probable mistakes.

A healthy and open communication process has helped games with bigger titles not only garner attention, but gain and retain popularity. I can only hope this change is going to turn to having a similar pattern of transparency with the players.

One other thing that might be cool is if they interacted with our community outside of the game, like at a gaming convention.... Things like that would also help to grow the playerbase~

What should the game do different?

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