UWO PvP system comparison with other top MMORPG.

NaverUWO · December 2017

UWO PvP system comparison with current top MMORPG Black Desert Online.

This is a strict comparison to make UWO more successful and to be more competitive with other games.

Both UWO and BDO games are in the same genre and have similar aspects in many cases but I would like to look into PvP system only which was a key factor for Black Desert in order to succeed while maintaining other majority of traders together.

Uncharted Water Online:

1. Pirates cannot attack repeatedly in lawless/hostile seas.

2. Can free pass from pirates without losing any trade goods. [Blockades are impossible]

3. Requires a lot of preparation for PvP.

4. Grinding skills to be stronger.

5. Pay to win.

- Over powered cash battle ships, gears and forged cannons made the game less skill required for any battles. All those tactical melee items became useless against cash ships meaning there will be no professional players.

- Cash players earn tons of more money than earning in-game which will increase the gap with freebies dramatically. This results to higher unstable profits from few and less stable profits from majority.

Black Desert Online:

1. Negative karma players (pirates) can attack repeatedly in danger zone.

2. Cannot free pass from negative karma players (pirates) and losing 50% of their trade goods on each death. [Blockades are possible]

3. Requires a lot of preparation for PvP.

4. Grinding skills to be stronger.

5. Pay to progress.

- PvP in BDO actually requires high tactical skills and good judgement in order to win which can attract more professional players.

- Cash players earn less money than earning in-game due to the limitation per week which can attract many freebies. This results to less unstable profits from few but higher stable profits from majority.

I was killing people around just like pirates are doing in UWO. As soon as a trader requested the support, people showed up (Bounty hunters) and had some fun time with them. I think UWO still have a chance to be populated with correct system because UWO is a unique historical game regardless of the graphic.

My concern is that most of maritime players are not same as me. They do not use forums to tell their opinions. They will leave very easily if they realize it's the more of same usual stuff we had since they do not have possessions either from the wipe.

I am not asking because I am selfish and want to farm white people. It's because of I want to see populated pirates that can break the boredom/inactivity of maritime community and restore energies for UWO as a whole.

If there are enough pirates, I am pretty sure many people will be interested in being bounty hunter and those who have quit already, will return to UWO 100% because I know their desires. They will form many BH companies including my co Red Empire in order to against pirates.

Let's bring diplomacy/competition/excitement again for 'our' success not for certain roles.

Twitchalot · December 2017

Naver, are you the person in the pics and vids you put in your postings? Your ego seems more than big enough, because a posting that long regarding a dead topic(Make Everything Plunderable) is either a huge ego gig regarding how much you like to read what you've typed along the lines of speaking because you like the sound of your own voice, or you truly are so dense light actually bends around you, because it's not ever going to happen. Get over it.

NaverUWO · December 2017

@Twitchalot

lefox271 · December 2017

Black Desert is more like Elder Scrolls than UWO. Okay they are all MMORPGs - but UWO is a different kind of concept to either Black Desert or Elder Scrolls.

The combat system in BDO is well-liked. Although it's also criticised for being too gear dependent. In comparison the mechanics of both the ship-to-ship and the first-person combat in UWO are very dated.

Naver - I think you are probably right, the combat system in UWO could be improved. Tactically it's not very realistic as an Age of Sail simulation. The gear is often more fantasy than realistic. I could get more interested in it if it had more realism.

But whilst agreeing with you on that point, I think you are also confusing the mechanics of the PvP with the mechanics of the game as a whole. Like I say, it's now a different kind of concept to BDO or ESO. And that concept has attracted a lot of players who are looking for something different.

You may be right that by increasing the PvP element of the game you will bring in a whole load of new players. But I think you also risk losing a large part of the present population - the ones who found something different in the trading and adventuring focus of UWO.

I don't want UWO to change because I like the adventuring and trading. I don't want to be beaten-up constantly by pirates. If I want to do PvP then I go and play CS-GO. And you go and play Warships and BDO.

Okay, in its heyday UWO might have attracted the PvP crowd. But times have changed; games have changed; the gaming market has changed; and the gaming technology has changed. You are never going to take UWO back to what it was 7 years ago, because that world no longer exists.

Leave UWO alone please. It's coming along nicely as this different kind of concept. We don't want it to be like almost every other game out there.

HelloAll · December 2017

@Lefox272

To be fair tho it isn’t doing that great is it.
It seems many left when pvp was nerded and then the game has been passed on to 2 different companies. And now I’m order to stay afloat (nice nautical pun) PP are going hard with the cash shop items.

Im going to continue to play whether pvp changes or not, but I’m not confident the game has much longer left if pvp stays as it is.

Soon the traders who are using the cash shop will have all the ship they need, and since trade is so easy to lvl they will not need to buy boosters soon.

So at that point the game relies heavily on maritimers to keep spending.

Or at least that how I see it, I may be wrong.

HelloAll · December 2017

Nerfed* damn predictive text

Rhend78 · December 2017

Comparing this game to Black Desert, or really almost every MMO is a bad idea.

Also, saying that Black Desert attracts "professional players" and UWO doesn't is hubris, and frankly, stupid.

There's been two, sword and board fantasy games that have really attracted the hardcore, professional player vs player crowd; Shadowbane and Darkfall. Everything else, including Black Desert, relies on a LOT of PvE or a LOT of cash shop buying to get the best gear to be better than almost everyone else, which all detracts from the skill of the players.

The only MMO I've seen with anything close to kind of a ship based PvP model like UWO that has some really good PvP'rs, would actually Eve. You could make comparisons between the two, but to make comparisons between a sword and board game and UWO is silly.

Rhend78 · December 2017

Now, I DO think that PvP needs to be tweaked.

I personally think, that they should make it so if waters go Lawless, players can be farmed

If you are Blue, you can be hit by Pirates/Privateers anywhere, and can be farmed by them.

A person can only be hit once by the same Pirate/Privateer in a 1 HOUR time period (24 hours is too much)

Do those three things, and I think it would go a long way towards balancing and helping the game out. The Lawless waters change would force whites and blues to either fight to keep their area safe, or lose vital trade areas to the control of privateers/pirates.

aceman39 · December 2017

He is at the point where he is grasping for straws to make his reasoning for getting to be allowed to farm white flags anyway he can. So he made this worthless one for that reason and that reason only. They are two different games and does not have the same mechanics as UWO is a game that has more to offer then PVP.

aceman39 · December 2017

It is also like comparing UWO to Star Wars online PVP action

CaptainQC · December 2017

uselless comparison from a neral 80% pvp game and another 20% pvp game.

Rhend78 i think your idea is good make them pirate farm only in lawless water can be ok trader ADV can use blue flag or just dont go there for 1 week

lefox271 · December 2017

I'm against any form of 'farming' of traders/ adventurers. It's just too open to abuse and bullying.

However, I wouldn't be against rule changes which made lawless waters more dangerous. For example by removing blue flag effects whilst in lawless waters. It seem a bit of a contradiction to call waters 'lawless', but to then say the law protects blue flags!.

This would enable pirates to 'control' lawless waters for a time, and perhaps encourage BH companies to mount campaigns against them.

I am a trader/ adventurer, and I would accept such temporary limitations on where I could sail.

Twitchalot · December 2017

I seriously doubt Papaya Play will do that, it would severely reduce sales of 24 hour No-War pacts.

aceman39 · December 2017

That is so true

HuseyinGazi · December 2017

I've read these particulair topics from you before and you even told me to deliver these kind of suggestion. But in general this idea is way too extreme in UWO and it has been already rejected in the past... You can't blame the publisher for what they're doing. :x

The main problem is that when repeated attacks on white players applies, then this abuse most likely will occur to certain player pirates who will exploit the mechanism by changing the desired water spots in Lawless water. We had in GAMA already two players (those who were at these time, knows it) who used an noob pirate alt to make certain traders blue and then they get constantly farmed.

By the time any BH appears, it is already too late as the water alone will change which cause a impact to not only you PvP participants, but other players as well. If this would apply then you've two cons at least I can tell now:

1) Once a white player is deckcleaned, they're hopeless for the next attacks (even if the rescue skill restores up to minimum crew, but cannonfire prestige becomes a issue). Unless they adjust rescue skill, this problem will stay and if the player isn't in a fast ship then he/she is typically screwed..

2) It may be true Bounty Hunters may get encouraged to hunt pirates, but some attacks may happen from far/unusual spot that makes BH'ers not bother to come. Even if they would come, pirates most likely run away not cause from cowardice, but most piracy ships aren't designed for full PvP as they sacrifice that for speed to catch prey.

Remember this kind of PvP is a hunt game (at least 80 % of all seas you're attackable by players) and KOEI made these balance (except with few mistakes) to make sure none will get discouraged. You've plenty other activities to do PvP each other and it needs time ever since the server got wiped.. I do agree that the rewards for piracy/BH should be buffed, but rather not the idea of yours as it discourage a majority to even sail outside Europe. The money is already sinking more in ratio than it's gained.

That is all I want to leave for now and I wouldn't bother doing this further as it is REJECTED already :x

Hope this is clear.

Kind Regards,

[CA]Huseyin_Gazi

YinYangSparty · December 2017

I don't think you people understand. The pvp system that Naver wants Is the pvp system this game launched with and made it so fun to play for a lot of people. A lot of people got burned out and quit after they nerfed the pvp system. If they revert it back to the original system it would encourage more people to actualy play the game instead of sit in Seville all day because now there would be pirates there would be a need for bounty hunter. There would also be less money in the game because traders would be getting plundered. Overall if they restored the original pvp system the game would become healthy again instead of bogged down with all these toxic carebear traders and spineless maritimers who think that active seas are bad for the game

CaptainQC · December 2017

for the player that cry agains trader money making way you guys dont ask those UWC reseller that they lower they price for those item. this way maybe those trade will not have to do all those money only to buy a ship that are in bottle. only because they have put 60$ on game for it and nah they wont only shit in ticket after this the only way to have that boat is to buy it from another 1 Lucky player that won it for 2$ but he resell it at 10b or even more.that the real reason why trader need to make allll those nanban trade only to gain 10b for a good ship

CaptainQC · December 2017

after this that reseller have 10b and the trader have no more money he need to start again but the 1 that win the ship for 2$ have 10b and more and still have uwc te continue resell and gain more and more billion only by resell. and finaly the reseeler have 10time more ducats than any trader just because the price are too high and playe want it so they work maybe a month to win 10b then give it away for a stock boat.that way a Lucky reseller can won more than 20b with only 20$ and never leave sevile

Twitchalot · December 2017

As I said, "So dense, light actually bends around him.....", It's not going to happen, give up.

Spookles · December 2017

Can we talk about UWO as a whole for a second? just a normal conversation.

First of all, I'm not an UWO expert. I know a decent amount of every aspect in the game.

Also I'm from RedEmpire myself so I'am biased in Naver his direction.

Current scenario:

Everyone is hauling tons of trade wares from EA right now, many people with multiple toons. These guys are raking in money, it's not even fair. (then again anyone could this, nothing is stopping people from doing this)

The moment a pirate appears in any lawless water the first thing a trader does is going in private mode.

But when a pirate does attack the trader most likely will use some tributes, and the trader goes free without any issue, returning to home with hundreds of millions of ducats. The pirate will have to wait for a new target, while the trader is about to break the economy (yes there it is again) more than it already is.

This is kinda the whole thing that is happening right now, is it interesting for a BH to go to EA now and try to stop this pirate? I don't think so..

What will this trader do, spent more and more money on bigger ships to get bigger hauls, where does it end? there is no end as a trader, besides upping prices for other people.

What it could be:

People won't stop using multiple toons, to fix this the whole game needs to be rehauled, so I'll let this dream sail off in the sunset.

But if whites could be farmed, would this be a bad thing?

Right now, traders can solo.. They don't need a company, if whites could be farmed they would need to join a company, the trader will need to look for other players to help him protect his wares against the pirates, ding ding ding this is where a BH comes in. If this would be the case the market would be less flooded with trade wares and overly rich people. Items would drop in prices because there is less money around. Can I point out that on OGP people needed more characters to store money!? If the game comes to that point, then the game is failing UWO has been designed a specific way.

I'm asking of you traders, are you really having fun?

You're sailing from EU to EA and visa versa, if you're fast you might do a nanban trip in ~40minutes. In the meantime you're probably watching videos or jerking your dingdong idc.

In the meantime you're having a laugh at people like Naver trying to make your game more fun for everyone. You're calling Naver selfish, but he's trying to save your game. PVP is very P2W, anyone playing games probably agrees that everyone hates it. But because it is P2W it also generates alot of money for Papaya which it needs to keep UWO running.

You.. the ones defending the whites are probably happy to not having to deal with pirates when farming your ducats, looking at the definition of selfish makes it seem like you're the ones in the wrong. Not Naver.

Selfish

Devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.

You're ignoring the ones achieving thrill in killing on open seas.

No one can deny that this game isn't in a good position, people in the MMO community LOVE PVP. This game has so much potential to be so good at it too!

tl;dr read it, care about your game or go do another useless nanban trip.

Spookles · December 2017

Another thing, with all due respect Huseyin.

The main problem is that when repeated attacks on white players applies, then this abuse most likely will occur to certain player pirates who will exploit the mechanism by changing the desired water spots in Lawless water.

This is a thing for GMs to protect, this is a job for the game moderators.

By the time any BH appears, it is already too late as the water alone will change which cause a impact to not only you PvP participants, but other players as well.

This is why companies are a thing, players are allowed to only use 3 characters at a time, meaning there are 2 slots left in your fleet, party up with a BH to defend your wares or get "deckcleaned" by pirates.

KOEI made these balance (except with few mistakes) to make sure none will get discouraged.

Pirates are discouraged to do their thing. Pirating, it isn't fun or worth your time. So is bounty hunting.

That is all I want to leave for now and I wouldn't bother doing this further as it is REJECTED already

Mistakes can be made, also be reverted and fixed.

HelloAll · December 2017

For me it’s difficult to know what to do in this game if pvp is no good.

I can’t yet comment on it because I’ve only had any pvp 2 times this server and that was while grinding in BS.

For me nanban has never excited me, some love it, I just can’t enjoy it.

I’m not really bothered about being wealthy in game either and I’ve not really got much interest in adventure side of things. Although maybe in time I will as in my company is some very experienced adventure players.

But for me, what’s kept me still playing through this grind is the idea of getting into pvp.

My plan is to pirate, not because I’m a horrible person, but because of the buzz of the chase, the adrenaline rush I get from it (maybe sound silly to some)

I could of gone pirate already, but I’ve continued to grind skills, not to overwhelm but to allow traders to get modded ships to provide a decent chase.

So if once I do start to pirate, it’s constant blue flags, and tributes then maybe I will get bored and stop playing.

This isn’t a balanced game right now, there isn’t really a platform for pvp, those of us doing it are forcing ourself to do it at the moment, or at least I am.

The only way I can describe it is if EA, SEA and INDIA was removed from the game, would the traders still enjoy making small amounts of money from trading around EU only? Probably not.

We need to see some balance. And Deck battle hasn’t created balance, if anything it’s played in to traders hands.

All they need to do it grind land battle a little and they can beat a maritime lvl 60 with refined assault in a 270 MR while the trader is in a 30 crew clipper.

So now a pirate has to grind cannon, melee and land battle now just to be sure to beat traders.

And this isn’t a biased one sided view because I was mostly a trader last server, but it is too boring and predictable for me.

CrzyPsycoChick · December 2017

Things ALWAYS overlooked in the farm white debate.

1. Why aren't maritimers and their companies challenging each other for supremacy if they want PVP excitement?

2. Are these maritme players just as eager to sink other maritimers who are a challenge as they are to face whites who are not?

3. Is there a skill to block deck battle( deck barrier ) why shouldn't maritiners get punished for STUPIDLY not putting this skill to block it if available?

4. If players quit due to being farmed does Papaya not lose money?

5. Farming does not make traders want to hire a BH they'll just buy and make MORE tribs to adapt and use blue flag good for papaya but crappy for you maritimers. Or simply stay in safe water

6. Why arent maritimers fighting for turf ie. EA, Calicut, West Africa if you did would this not push pvp and give more opportunity to pirate more/ bounty? Or is a challenge too frightening for maritimers today. (Most Relevant IMO)

7. Why must the suggestion always be "farming" of whites why not add incentives for lawless waters? Like a speed buff in lawless, higher market rates like 150%, better sw prizes, +50% exp buff, much higher success crafting in lawless the catch doesn't work if blue flag engaged. This would encourage more traders to go there and they cant use tribs thats WAY more effective than farming is it not?

( 2nd most relevant)

8. The last meaningful season long tournament for maritimers was SBL oops I mean the UBL season 1… why arent maritimers organizing these type of events and being proactive in facilitating their own maritime instead of blaming all their maritime woes on whites? Wheres the season long tournaments???

HuseyinGazi · December 2017

I see you've commented each point on my statement, Spookles. It is a good thought, but I want to comment every point back:

1. This is a thing for GMs to protect, this is a job for the game moderators

Unfortunate that is not feasible, because they've to trackdown every player then that could make this possible action (tedious work). It has to happen that someone must screenshot those abusers and report it before action can be taken. If it is too late then GM's would have to adjust the water status and this kind of action we want rather being avoided as this issue was bad enough in GAMA. The GM's aren't 24/7 active to keep a eye on it.

2. This is why companies are a thing, players are allowed to only use 3 characters at a time, meaning there are 2 slots left in your fleet, party up with a BH to defend your wares or get "deckcleaned" by pirates.

Again, you've sometimes moment that they aren't online and most aren't willing to wait for it. When a pirate is fleeted, they can counter this easily by aiming the defenceless admiral and then target the BH'ers (not likely) or escape. You've the same story.

3. Pirates are discouraged to do their thing. Pirating, it isn't fun or worth your time. So is bounty hunting.

So you're saying that item plunder (shipparts and equipment) isn't enough? They even have nerfed the shipskill improved hold, camouflage hold and even WMB in terms of plunder protection so that pirates get the chance to take it away from traders.

4. Mistakes can be made, also be reverted and fixed.

Not if the developers has rejected this already... their decision are final and can't be changed by any of us sadly. All you can do is wait till they reconsider which is not likely.

I do like to have pirate and chases as I've mentioned early on the other topic. I love to have these thrills, but not everyone is the same in this view and don't even have the ships. Players aren't always equiped for deckbattle and the chances on force deck is small as the crew of the pirate is relative higher than traders.

To me these changes would help pirates at least:

1) Fixing the bug where a pirate cant attack a player again until he/she logouts rather waiting 24 hours. Even after the fix, with the current population I find 24 hours too long and a strong deducation (to like 1-3 hours) may be need it.

2) That BH'ers are shown blue in search, so that pirates know when to escape. Right now it is difficult for them to anticipate when danger occur.

3) Improving the spoil rewards by changing junk clothes into silver tarot, LCCT, treasure maps, more useful shipparts etc. As pirates have to pay bribery already everytime in capitals, so something must be returned. Problem is this has been denied.. :(

4) I remember few MMORPG's made also quests special for PvP to hunt certain preys for extra rewards which could be great for UWO too for BH/Pirates. I dont think this will happen in the near future as it requires too much code-change.

5) No penalty on 10k+ notierity to pick up quests.

Not to mention that white players can take bounty of pirates even by defending and turning blue which is not suppose to happen. Sadly this fix has been rejected too...

I can think more about them, but the problem is those changes aren't likely to happen as this is a new server where they changed the PvP content already... It needs time before the activity increase and in order to do maritime, you need money for that.

You should know that suggestion regarding big changes are not likely to be accepted... it is why I don't know why Naver bothers it. It only leads to unnecessary discussion.

I am done by this for now.

Kind Regards,

HelloAll · December 2017

Lol aceman not actively ‘disliking’ my comment.

Even tho it was a balanced and non confrontation comment.

Your a strange bloke mate, hopefully my first catch when I turn red ;p

aceman39 · December 2017

Good luck in trying to find me. I am not a easy target to find on the seas

AtemsUWO · December 2017

Seems all the people against the thought of being farmed are scared of having a challenge to make billions of ducats.

aceman39 · December 2017

And the pirates who want to farm traders and adventurers know that if they faced another pirate company or other pirates are afraid to lose against them. So why not fight someone who can give you all a challenge and not pick on all the ones who pirates know are a easy target?

Katanauwo · December 2017

I like Naver’s suggestion. The original system provided lots of fun. And I honestly think the server needs to go back to that stage (ie. pvp system before the second age)

Back then I played as a newb pirate, but had a lot of fun. Every hunt was like a mini surprise! Sometimes it was 10m ducats, then some rare equipment, useful sails, recipes, earrings etc. people then were willing to pay a ransom for those lost stuff.

Look at what we had during 2nd age? 100% blocking plunder... completely nonsense.

If the game rule does not improve, it will die sooner or later (could be very soon).

aceman39 · December 2017

Read the reasons why it wont happen given by a CA in UWO and you have your explanations why it wont happen

Katanauwo · December 2017

Happening or not, it is still moving towards the right direction. The status quo is definitely broken. As soon as grinding phase is over (which is progressing annormally fast atm), the game will face its former crisis of being boring.

CA explained that it were mainly those abuse and exploits that stopped the idea from advancing to reality.

What we need is the suggestion to perfect this idea so that those exploits cannot happen.

UWO PvP system comparison with other top MMORPG.

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