New player experience

Ferrolio · October 2018

Ahoy mates, and would be suitors. It is I, Ferrolio! Back from unfathomable depths...

Since I've been away, there's been a few updates and with it -- new content and changes to old content.

Now I could go on about a lot of those changes and how I'm not a great fan of some aspects, like the new shipbuilding system, for example. But the one which concerns me the most currently is, of course, the revamp to school. You see, being the perpetual noob that I am -- the newbies hold a special place in my heart.

The attempts to streamline the game and make it easier, don't always hit the mark. And I think with the current new player experience and with Sagres, that is most apparent.

As I was busy trying to remember my old log-in information...I thought, why not try out a new toon and see what all the fuss is about? I planned to treat it as if I were brand new to the game. That way I could better judge how much of an improvement the new tutorial and Sagres is (or if it is). So, with that in mind, below is my experience on a new character:

I figured I'll start in Venice. I mean, it's clearly the best. Okay my bias is showing. Mainly it's because I like a bit of a challenge. So, the toon was made. As per usual, you speak to the Guild Master corresponding to the profession you start with. In this case, the Maritime GM for me. He tells you about the gift he prepared for you in order to level faster, which you can claim through 'Record' -> 'Challenge Mission'. It needs total level 5. A bit annoying, but that's fine. Usually that's no problem attaining. Then he tells you about the 'Journal' and 'Charts', to see which permits you have. Yep, everything is in order thus far. About this time, you usually would get transported to the school located in your capital. No longer.

Instead, he tells you about a 'request', which you're not ready for. So he advises you to head out into town and familiarize yourself with the facilities and gain some 'experience'. As you exit the guild, you get a prompt about a 'Beginner's Guide', and that you can opt out of it under 'Settings'. Better get accustomed to it, because this 'voice' from the ether replaces the tired, but hospitable, Instructor Alan. As well as all the other quirky instructors. This 'Beginner prompt' will show up from time to time giving you hints. Even at sea, unannounced; stopping you in your tracks to tell you about things in no cohesive fashion, or indeed far too late to be useful to the newbie.

Oh, and also while leaving the guild, you're told to ask other players in World Chat if you have questions. That's a rather peculiar tip there game. Sure it works sometimes. But there are obvious issues with that(insert vitriol). Not least -- the utter inability to use World chat when starting off! At least you can ask players nearby, or use School chat right? Wrong!

New characters can no longer use 'Say' and are no longer put straight into School chat when starting out. Not until you have gained a few levels, anyway (Does anyone, per chance, know at what level exactly you can start using 'Say'?). Now there's plenty of things messed up with the new tutorial, but this has to be right up there among the worst. One of the first things people do when playing an MMORPG, is to start socializing right away. Whether that's introducing themselves, or asking questions, which they will undoubtedly have -- it's very normal and necessary.

Okay...so pretty shoddy so far. Maybe it will get better. Your brand new toon is advised to start off by visiting the shipyard, then the market -- and here some more issues become apparent. Since you are no longer expected to go through the old Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced schools like before -- there is no drip-by-drip flow of information bestowed to you suitable to your level. Instead it's a torrent of info, all at once from the market keeper, who is trying to do Instructor Alan's, Gregory's, and Mutu's jobs all at once, and notably, without the same charm and personality -- which actually is important and adds to the flavour and immersion. A lot of topics that you would have learned about previously, like production, Epic Investment Battles, and so on, hardly get a mention in this new tutorial -- if mentioned at all.

Next, you're urged to take a quest from the Guild. Which guild? I don't know, the game didn't specify. The adventure mediator didn't even have a quest for me. So I just picked up a quick quest from the merchant's guild hoping it was sufficient. "Do you like it thick" was the quest of choice. Yes, that's the name. Yes, it's a real quest. And it does entail the craftsman in Venice 'modelling' for Michelangelo...I highly recommend it.

Anyway...With that done. Now what? Well I'm not sure. Once again, nothing shows up telling me where to go next. So I tried going to school manually. But the receptionist tells me "New applicants are no longer being accepted". Great. So I talk to the Port Official, go out to sea and find a Naval Practice Ship waiting for me, that I was not told about. I make short work of it. Go back to town and once again...Nothing. No active quests, or any prompt directing me anywhere. Remember, I'm a newbie. Remember, I can't ask anyone for guidance.

Eventually I figure, since I'm a military learner, perhaps I'll try a maritime guild quest. Oh that ship I just destroyed is the target. Hmm. Whoops! And now it's not spawning again. I see a problem...( Also, why did it spawn before accepting the quest?) I tried relogging, retaking the quest etc. No luck. So I had to remake my toon. This time I will take the maritime guild quest first, then destroy the practice ship. Okay...quest complete, but no progress until I spoke to the Maritime GM through my own volition. He teaches you about skills and changing jobs. And then again -- silence...(this is becoming all too familiar)...where to next? Fine, I'll try a second quest, since I don't know what else to do.

I guess it worked. Upon leaving the maritime guild, this time I got a prompt about a 'rumoured training school'. Then it granted me all the European port permits. Now I need to find information about a liner. The game doesn't say where to find that info(Though I know where). So eventually I trudge over to the port official. Look up liner info. The times are in PDT/PST. I know that, you know that. But a brand new player may not.

Then I find out that, actually, I need to go Lisbon first. The liner cost to Sagres is 5000, and 55000 for Lisbon. The game starts you off with 50000 Ducats, which you may have used up learning skills earlier when taught about them, like I did. Oopsie. Well Sagres is right by Lisbon. So I'll head there then sail to Lisbon. Also if you missed the liner by a few minutes -- too bad. Now you have to wait for half an hour, or sail there in a barca. Which may well end up taking longer, depending on where you start.

Alright, so far -- there's been sub-par guidance, and now I need to wait 25 more minutes for the next liner. Btw, I'm total level 5 now and still can't chat. So I'm not certain where to go. I can't really progress for half an hour, and I can't talk to anyone in the meanwhile. Anyone else seeing what's wrong here? Of course people will get lost! Of course people will get frustrated! Of course they will find this to be the opposite of fun! And of course they might end up quitting UWO very soon after because of it!

Don't fret -- it gets worse! Once you finally do get to Sagres (if you do), you may be able to join school chat. Except there's not as many people there as there used to be in the channels. One factor is probably the ineligibility of new toons to join automatically. Just a hunch. Even when I did get into school chat -- it was totally dead. I tried to liven it up from time to time, but it soon deflates. There's hardly any new blood, whose enthusiasm can sometimes spark a bustling conversation.

Okay. So I'm in Sagres. There are three instructors, and they have quests for me. Grand. Except -- the quests you get are quite random...There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to which ones show up. It's not a step-by-step quest progression like the old school used to be. Why is this a problem? Well, not every new character knows about, or fulfills, the requirements for quests that show up on their list. Not every quest will give you job cards. Some people might get the exam quests to show up right away. And others will not after 10 QMP's. As a newbie -- I only got 1 QMP at this point, via a challenge mission reward. Many legitimately new players won't even know how to claim it.

Regarding the job cards...there is something important to note. Per the old school system -- it was very easy to obtain job cards. A very efficient way to go about it was doing up to Intermediate school of the profession type you chose. Say adventure school up to the completion of the final Intermediate exam. There were also two optional quests 'Changing job to Trader' & 'Changing job to Soldier' (Also in Sagres, but subject to randomness), that also gave you cards corresponding to those professions. Then you could change to either one and start beginner school for those, and crucially -- pick up some vital skills in the process, while earning maximum exp & fame.

Just to illustrate this difficulty further -- through Sagres, I did not obtain any job cards, other than 1 adventure job card, until day 3 of playing a few hours each day. And had an even worse time pulling the exam quests, or the exam quests that corresponded to the adventure skill I trained up to r4 (remember in the old school you could pick which exam you wanted to do). Maybe I was a tad unlucky, but I think the whole system is unwieldy.

There may also be a fame requirement (possibly 100 fame?) before one can even pull the exam quests. I doubt any new player would realize this and will, once again, become dejected at an apparent impasse.

Not to mention that (in Sagres) it's also quite possible to get the Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced exam quests back to back, with no others in between. Meaning players will shoot up in levels and fame, but learn little in the process. Whereas previously -- and while the old school may take much longer -- each quest is designed to teach you something new; finally culminating in the drills, then the exam, to test your mettle.

*Continued below

Ferrolio · October 2018

Granted -- that's what a lot of people wanted and like about Sagres. Sure, for people like you and I who know about (and have access to) QMP's, and port-hopping and so on -- we can take alts through Sagres in little time and achieve comparable levels of experience and fame as the old school, minus the tediousness.

Seems ideal, right? Maybe on the surface it seems like an improvement. But you've gotta think about it from the brand new player's perspective. Or even the perspective of a returning player on a fresh character.

It's a dreadful introduction to new characters. And another important issue is that of veteran players being unable to understand/appreciate the struggle, and therefore, help the new ones who are going through it. So I urge you all to give it a go. Start up a new toon and pretend you know nothing about UWO. Try to get by. You'll find yourself not getting anywhere...

Something has to be done about it.

To summarize...these are the issues with the new tutorial/Sagres:

Significantly lacking in clear direction
Locks new characters out of being able to attend the old school
Chat restrictions for both 'Say' and 'School chat' until leveling up
Condensed information, leading to overload in some places. Or a complete lack of information in others.
Diminishes flavour/immersion. Things like nation choice, and role-playing a student from London etc.
More favourable to some nations over others (poor Venice).
Liner wait time and fee could pose a problem/act as a deterrent
Random nature of Sagres' quests and consequently -- difficulty obtaining job cards
Doesn't really teach players much about the game and its mechanics
Veteran players unfamiliar with the new system are unable to guide newbies
Uncaptivating/uninteresting flow of quests and information

So...what can we actually do about it. Well that's a two part question really.

First -- what can Papaya Play do about it? I don't know. We're not exactly privy to all of their capabilities. At a bare minimum I think the chat restrictions need to be lifted. Not allowing newbies to communicate is a surefire way to get people to stop playing your game.

Another thing that I think has to be implemented is the choice of two tutorials. The first one would be the traditional way, that we've all come to know intimately i.e going through school beginning with the one in your hometown and so on. The second would be the Sagres path. Upon logging in for the first time -- the option of either would be presented, with a very clear *PICK THIS* option if you're new to the game, to denote the first path.

This way new players, and those who prefer the old school system can progress that way, and those who just want to rush an alt through Sagres can benefit from that choice. I don't think this would be particularly difficult to implement and seems a fair compromise.

In the meanwhile -- what can we, as the community do? Well, a few things:

Recognize the deficiencies in the new tutorial (best done by experiencing it firsthand)
Really try extra hard to attract and keep new players as it seems the game is attempting to do the opposite
Make eligible toons join school chat and help answer questions, or just make conversation
Put up bazaars in Sagres and capitals with the aim of helping newbies
Try and actively recruit new players in to your various companies
Teach newbies, but don't give them everything on a silver platter
Make known/easily accessible some out-of-game communication options for new players (things like Discord etc.)
Create guides for the community. There are still many opportunities and desires for these.
Contribute your feedback to this thread and to Papaya Play directly regarding potential improvements and solutions
Remember to keep things fun for yourself and others ;)

Oh, and if you happen to be a new player, or just anyone really, that is lost/unsure about something -- don't be afraid to speak up and seek out help from others. This community is, for the most part, pretty cool. After all, that's often how friends are made, bonds are formed, and divorces come to pass...Huh what? Nevermind that last bit. Just keep clams and have fun, eh?

lefox271 · October 2018

Thanks for this @Ferrolio. Good work. It's useful to know.

The old school system is still there and functioning. If you have a toon which had previously started school you can go on and complete all 3 schools. I am actually doing this with a toon at the moment. So it is literally the case that the schools are not accepting new students.

As experienced players we know the value of the schools - a lot of exp quickly and the ship rewards are the best newbie boats. However I don't believe newbies see it the same way. Most just want to try out the game - it's what happens to instruction books, no one reads them until later on when they already know the basics.

When I first started the game I relied on the wiki and other on line guides.

There are clearly some issues with Sagres. But I'm unsure they are fatal. I've not had newbies complaining about the tutorial.

If the old school system is still in place - and like I say it is - then why not just allow new admissions. Then people will have a choice.

crazyhunter2003 · October 2018

one problem with removing all chat restrictions is,it opens the door to the gold spammers

Ferrolio · October 2018

So...it's actually even worse than I first thought. In addition to the issues I listed above - the liner information, that the game directs you to the port official to find out about, is incorrect. Once you do actually try to take the liner from the docks, it states the correct timetable. Though the conflating info might cause someone to ignore the liner altogether. Already spoke to a few people who had this issue.

Another strange thing that occurred is that on my test toon - I was kicked out of School Chat after a dc, even though I hadn't graduated from all 3 schools, nor did I reach level 40. And unlike the old school - you can't conveniently rejoin at the various instructors at the old academies. Oh no. Instead I had to sail a tiny ship to Sagres to speak to one of their instructors to rejoin School Chat.

@lefox271

I get what you're saying in terms of not reading the instruction manuals, but this new beginner's guide thing is rather intrusive and shows up in the middle of your screen. It even slows you to a crawl at sea. Yeah you can opt out of it, but I'm not sure that new/returning players would do so, or want to (Some people will of course). For one, they can't tell when it will spurt out actual useful info, or instead - tell them about a game mechanic they already had to figure out by themselves. And I'm not completely opposed to that generally. I don't think firm hand holding is the answer either. After all, the game is a sandbox of sorts.

But not everyone might embrace that challenge with zeal, like you or I. And we can't exactly afford to be super selective as to who we make the accessible to. Let's face it, while it's not the doom and gloom that some naysayers might espouse - the game is archaic, and it's not like we have a bustling population either. It's true that UWO is not for everyone. The issue is many people who would otherwise fall in love with the game, might not ever get to that point, because of the inept tutorial.

And it's not just newbies that this affects. Many of the new characters being created are from returning players. They actually know how useful school and its perks are, and even they are having problems getting passed the initial hurdle. Spoke to one such player this very day.

You know...I found it fun starting in Venice and sailing around in a barca when I first started. But at least I could talk to other players during this time. That's a luxury not afforded to new toons. Not until they gain a few levels, or reach Sagres. For them - it's one big, confusing and lonely world.

I don't think that should be one's introduction to the game.

@Jack

That might be why the restrictions are in place, but to me it's kind of like saying - why have cars, if we know there are going to be accidents? And that analogy doesn't even fit considering we're not really having those 'accidents'. When was the last time anyone saw a gold seller? They've likely moved on to riper fruit heh.

calicaddy46 · October 2018

This is an actual issue. I tried this for myself and the dialog help was all over the place it was difficult to follow. It rarely directed the players where to go, and the only reason I got to Sagres liner part was because I had previous game knowledge to see where to check. This is really bad for the beginners. It told me to take the liner but it never gave any directions for it. I eventually gave up because I would have had to wait 25 minutes for the liner or sail in a barca. You aren't even given any knowledge about sailing at sea and the game is already expecting you to sail to Sagres. Assuming you have full geographical knowledge of the location of Sagres to begin with.

Perhaps something like an initial auto-teleport to Sagres would probably work better. Like you would still start in your own nation, but like how old system teleported you right to school, it would teleport you to Sagres.

ssd21345 · October 2018

I agree that the gold seller would not exist if the world chat restriction is lifted, for the same reason.

WalkerDePlank1 · October 2018

The only thing I would have changed from the old system, which was perfect in my opinion, is get rid of the graduation drills. Any time you have to do repetitive things it becomes boring and discouraging. 1 Final graduation quest is enough in my opinion.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx · October 2018

Hello Ferrolio,

Your summary goes right to the heart of what needs fixing in UWO.

It needs to be easier for new players to enjoy the game from the moment they start.

The path to early success needs to be clear and not require a lot of guessing or prior knowledge.

In short, the game needs to minimize frustration, not add to it.

That can be said for many other aspects of the game as well.

xxxxxxxxxxx

purplepirate · October 2018

I don't see why they changed the old school for in the first place, it was fine and easy to follow. The only change they needed would've been to add cntl/skip optipn to the naritave for people who've done the school before. This new system just sucks and complicates things for new players.

captainradish · October 2018

I agree. I've been playing off and on for years (probably since about 2007 or so). I've gotten back into it after probably about two years or so (probably the last time the game was listed on Steam) and couldn't remember all the nuances and really how to do anything. The new "tutorial" was rather confusing to someone who had a relative grasp of the basics, so I can't conceive of how hard it would be to someone new.

I'm all about keeping the original school active and allowing a choice: do the full school if you wish or do the truncated school. I mean, I've gotten the merchant finals back to back to back in my game. For a new person, this would be horribly confusing. I mean, nowhere has anyone really gone over crafting. My intermediate final was to build a carpenters tool. I honestly still am not really sure how to. I just bought one from a peddler in Seville and passed that exam (with a ship I couldn't immediately use).

I LIKED the original school. I thought it had character. It was also a good pace and gradually taught most of the concepts of the game. I don't think Papaya Play has really truly grasped just how complicated this game can be.

LiquidElectron · October 2018

It's been several years since I last played, I thought it might be fun to try again. After the discovery that my old account no longer existed, I was looking forward to the schools again, as I'd forgotten basically everything.

About 30 minutes of playing and discovering the old schools were gone, I left. Can't ask anyone what comes next, that along with having near to no direction is not a good experience.

peaceneutron · October 2018

This new way at Sagres is hard for even someone like me who played for a while before when things were different, ages and ages so to speak. Even going in with a basic knowledge of the game it's very hard to figure out what you're supposed to do. You basically wander around your starting city and talk to the people they tell you to talk to, and they keep mentioning some mysterious city that has a school, and eventually they tell you where it is and where to go. After that you're pretty much on your own, doing quests, except for the occasionally annoying "dead stop" while you're sailing as an adventurer for a tip about why you need the "escape" skill. It would be a lot easier to learn for new players if they bring back the other schools or improvise on Sagres to make it a little easier. Just a little more newb friendly please!

VHellsink · October 2018

Excellent points by op, new player experience is crucial for long term survival of the game.

Just started playing again myself and starting out is confusing even when you have done all the schools before. When these issues and, in the unlucky case, constant dcs (2::2) haunt the new player, I wonder if anyone has the patience to struggle on for very long and maybe become a paying customer some day.

sadarsa · October 2018

I'm not going to go into a long post about why i absolutely hate this change in the new player system (and i do). I realize that some people my like it, but instead of totally shutting down the old school, why not just let us choose which one we want to attend?

Another thing i hate is all pop-up tips, annoying as hell.

FlorianGeyer · October 2018

I agree with all this mates. Good Job bringing this up Ferrolio.

Lots to say about this but I don't know where to start. All that must be said about is is done so far and I hope Papaya picked up the message and is willing to somehow reverse ths in a future update.

After all, UWO's schoolsystem is unique as it was and if I remember well it was praised for it!
I remember my absolute beginning period; apart from a hand full of players helping me out, the schooling system was my best friend at that time. It somehow even is nostalgic and literally a fundamental part of the game. What doesn't mean there is no place for improvement of the system as it was...
Such as mentioned earlier, a skipping function for those who have gone trough it before would be an absolute advantage for the exp. players in order to lvl their newborn alt and win time at the same time. The mentor system, for my part, may be improved such a mentor, who stands with a newbie during its entire schooling process should get fame for it as well.

I hope Papaya sees the urge to restore this. It would be sad to see new players go who would have stayed if at least they would have had a decent schooling which is not to complicated and works intuitively AND at their own learning speed.

Yours,
Flo!

Once more, good you brought this up!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx · October 2018

Ok, Papaya, you have heard enough from people that are trying to help you build the player base.

The new school system should minimize frustration, and it does not.

If you can't attract new players to "stay the course", the game will diminish, and so will your income.

What are you going to do?

PLEASE FIX THE PROBLEM NOW, NOT LATER.

Ferrolio · November 2018

Thanks for the feedback folks!

Though it's important to remember that only a fraction of the population visit the forums, and fewer still will ever post. So these frustrations are but a microcosm of what it's actually like in game.

Obviously if more people speak up - they are more likely to take notice, so I will keep encouraging it.

I think now, more than ever, this needs to be addressed with Steam on the horizon. A lacklustre tutorial will hurt their bottom line. Besides, us players want busy ports and busy seas. It's healthy for the game and enriches the experience!

Once again, though, I want to reiterate...The initial hurdle aside - UWO really is a grand game with much to offer. It's worth enduring the rough start in order to get to a more fun stage.

As always - I'm available here or in game if anyone needs help getting through Sagres, or anything else for that matter. Feel free to message me whenever. And I'm certain there are many others willing to assist as well. So don't get too discouraged if you're new/coming back ;)

Ginny1 · November 2018

PAPAYA, PLEASE FIX SAGRES SCHOOL ASAP.

I tried helping a new player that had completed all 3 levels of Adventure at Sagres, and wanted to change to Trade, but couldn't without a job card.

But he couldn't get the quest to get the right job card.

The new player's name was Capt_Jasper, he was totally frustrated by Sagres.

SAGRES SCHOOL WILL CONTINUE TO FRUSTRATE NEW PLAYERS UNTIL IT IS CHANGED.

GREED92 · November 2018

I played briefly years ago and went through the school system before. I came back today and was completely lost. I'll wait till a better system or the the school is back in place to come back.

GREED92 · November 2018

I am glad I came to the forums to look this school thing up. I thought I was going crazy or my game was bugged when I couldn't enroll.

MikeR2 · November 2018

Hello Papaya Play,

What can you do to fix the Sagres School, to avoid chasing away new players?

Are you working on a fix?

Please let us all know if you are going to do something soon.

We need new blood in the game, but if I recommend someone to try UWO, I don't want them to tell me that the school was too confusing.

How about allowing people to access the old school system as an alternative.

At least that way, when they get done with the school, they will actually understand a few things about how to play the game.

MikeR2

purplepirate · November 2018

@MileR2 papaya play has nothing to do with the new school system. This is an koei game and are the ones responsible for content. Best to ask papaya to contact them because of this issue. If koei is smart they will bring back the old system and use Sarges.

KingOfUruguay · November 2018

O used to play when the game was on steam and just king of forgot about it for a while, then I discovered it again a month ago and found it really hard to start. I was a first confused about the school and why it wouldn’t let me join, I don’t know Excalibur’s how but I got to the point where it told me to go to Sarges. I go there, and find it extremely confusing as to what quests to take. The old school didn’t have any of these issues and I agree that it should be brought back (or at leas unlocked to new players)

Ginny1 · December 2018

If the new school system is so confusing, can't someone from Papaya talk to KOEI, and at least get some recommendations about how to proceed through the Sagres school with a bit less frustration, and then provide those guidelines to new players when they register?

If the school system can't be changed, at least the path to graduation could be made a little less confusing for beginners.

Katanauwo · December 2018

There is one simple fix, just put learner job cards for free in premium shop!
Trade learner, maritime learner and adventure learner

Katanauwo · December 2018

the newbie school problem belongs to KOEI. They rushed the new chapters while directing their resource to their own pay to win mobile apps.

It is better not let new players doing school quests, but rather follow a list of things to do to power level.

lefox271 · December 2018

In the early stages the school quests are undoubtedly the best way of leveling quickly.

TanamoElish · December 2018

Yeah I need that list pronto. I haven't hated on a tutorial before but wow, what an achievement for this game. Someone make a guide please, this game is turning me off.

rheckr · December 2018

I've just tried to play but this tutorial is just a joke. I have no idea what to do, i don't have any chat, any tips - nothing..

I've completed maritime quest and took second one, didn't get any info about Sagres and i don't have even permit to get into there.

They broke it completely, i am beginner and i have to give up just after few minutes of "gameplay".

MikeR2 · December 2018

Papaya/KOEI

Please fix the school before the end of the year.

I invited a friend to try UWO, and he tried to get through the Sagres School, but got so frustrated, so quickly, that he went back to his other games, and I can't get him to try again, until something changes for the better.

I can't help him either because I went through the old school system, and other than reading about the various problems listed above, I don't know what to tell him.

A simple explanation about how to get through the school would be a start, and helping new players with a recipe or path for success would make a big difference.

PLEASE HELP NEW PLAYERS TO ENJOY THIS GAME AND AVOID FRUSTRATION IN SCHOOL

MikeR2

New player experience

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