People Cheating Causing Lag?

kanatta · December 2018

Since the OGP era, I was really annoyed about the "random" lag spike the game was experiencing.

Not referring to the case when the site was under DDOS attack, but rather about what became the standard lag spikes we all grew so used to.

Combine to that, the fact that we experience still "random" unexplained lag spikes, despite being on a completely different server.

Combine to that the fact that if you're in the maritmer PvP circles of this game the first thing you notice is how you lagged before you got crited!

Furthermore, if you care to look you will also notice that it seems to be the same few "crit masters" that get those lucky lag crits, or so it seems to me. You know what I mean those crits that you try to react to, by starting to steer in one direction, and the next thing you see is yourself 1 shot crited...

My initial reaction to all this was meh random lags and probably bad connections and or bad servers.

But could it be that there is more to it?

Could it be that there is an exploit that players use that would account and explain for all those seemingly random lag problems?

Since I have a modest background in the MMO industry, I found a post in World of War Ship's forum that was exposing the use of a type of exploit called a "lag switch".

To vulgarise the idea behind those lag switches, put simply the name itself is indicative, a player making others lag to benefit, in player vs player online games.

I will understand if you think this is all crack pot tinfoil.... it could very well be the case be, I don't have any solid evidence or facts but I do know the difference between a server sided lag and a client sided lag.

So I know at all times when I'm the one lagging in terms of my connection because I can see my latency with papaya's server at all times.

And I have a hard time to rationalize how my client start's lagging when simultaneously my ping(latency) to Papaya's server remains stable at 30'ish milliseconds, and coincidently the lag spike occured, you guessed it... just before one of those few same players crited me.

Whatever your opinion is on this matter, true, untrue, possible or impossible, I would suggest for you to do your homework. Look up what lag switches are, and how to spot them, and if you need to figure out if your

connection is the one lagging use the Windows task manager every MS Windows has one.

You can find your latency/ping by going:

Task Manager> Performance > Open resource monitor > CPU > Processes > Put Checkmark on GVOonline.bin > go to Network Tab > then Under the TCP Connection's Filter, you will have your GVO/Papaya server's ping aka latency in milliseconds.

I mean I struggle to rationalize how I can consistently lag before certain players crits and have my ping to the server remain low (meaning not lagging myself)?

I hope maybe that what I'm talking about gets looked into because it may explain how those random lag spikes are correlating with random PvP encounters ...

Spookles · December 2018

I know what you mean, I did try and monitor while doing PVP a while ago in BC. I didn't notice anything, however what I expect is that what you see and the your oppononent sees might not be 1:1 all the time. Which is causing crits that look really weird and impossible.

A good example of what I mean with this - since you're pulling WoWS in here - in World of Tanks you can enable 'server reticle' where you can see that where you aim isn't 1:1 100% of the time of what the server sees.

Now this is one way, your reticle and the server's reticle.

In UWO this is two ways, You <> Server <> Player you're fighting.

And I don't think UWO is running on an expensive top of the line server rack as to what you can expect in games like CS:GO.

So no, I don't think it's a 'lag switch' I think it's just poor servers.

When that rare plundering event for halloween was happening my client in Seville had ~80-90ms. But my client at the plundering site west of Britain was at ~120-200ms.

purplepirate · December 2018

One thing i've noticed is there isa definite delay when turning compared to OGP. Once you commit a turn there is a 1-2 second delay before the turn happens. This didn't happen on OGP and makes all the difference during battle. I find it strange to that when i have max cannon skills that i don't get a crit shot even when I'm perfectly lined up yet others don't have to be and they still get their crits.

As for illicid hacks i had one experience when some noob with less than half my battle lvl's challanged me one day to a duel (i was high 60's at the time and they were low 30's). During the battle he asked me to wait a moment before attacking. It was at about 5 seconds of waiting when next thing i see is that i was BOOTED from the game, yes booted not dc'd eventhough i has blue ring and no lag. I logged back on within a few seconds only to find out that i lost the duel. I accused him of using a hack but he just laughed at me. Was it a hack or VERY lucky timing for him? I find it strange that such a low lvl player would be so confident to make a challange like that in the first place. I tried to report it but nothing came of it.

purplepirate · December 2018

you know, Papaya actually mentions about hack tools for UWO on the login page where they warn about malware. So maybe there's something to what you suggest...

LyonesseJoseph · December 2018

I admit that I did suspect there were some players to use lag switch, trainer device, bots, or other kind of device that often disrupt server's connection. That's why I encountered red ring, lag, or dc'd frequently while I rarely got crashed or freeze. One problem is that those incidents are totally random ,so there is no way for us know who's behind that.

I never had issue with other online games such as VCO, Runescape, Archage, etc.I also played steam games such as Dragon Quest XI, Atelier series, Disgaea 5 and other games.

Katanauwo · December 2018

You have been living with lag free environment for way too long, and have grown acustom to how awesome you evade other’s crit attempt.

The 1-2 second turn delay has been usual since i joined maritime.

the server has a global queue scan to which your action is placed every 1 or 2 seconds depending on the natureof your command.

On top the order of the queue replay is then determined by a priority fact, e.g. how frequent you send a same command. Like arcade game, pushing button faster will increase your strength in duel.

If you understand this setup, you would use it ij your favour. Make move in rhythem and click fast when coming off melee.

You may observe this pattern when playing pvp against yourself on two different toons. Your character move differently on different clients.

YinYangSparty · December 2018

Ok just droping by to show a video that can be somewhat related to what you might say is a "lucky lag crit"

at about the 2:15 mark is the closest thing that I can remember for a lucky lag crit which wasn't luck or lag at all, its just all timing. What was once explained to me is that when after your guns are reloaded and you wait a few seconds they will start to blink red. and in this state your cannons will fire just a little faster/cannonballs fly faster. This method is used best when exiting melee with someone right behind who is in that state that knows the timeing exactly. There could be some server releated lag but ive never noticed it and as for hacks I don't think they are but macros ive been told have been used by pvp "masters"

Spookles · December 2018

I think it primarily has to do with where the ships are at the moment you hit spacebar.

Example: if this are the ships I --- if you hit spacebar it will be a crit, but if that other player turns just after you hit space bar it might be that your ships are parallel at the time the cannonball hits the ship ( | | )

but when you hit spacebar it was a crit, so it's gonna be a crit regardless of the rotations that the ships are at the time of the cannonballs hitting your ship.

I hope it's clear what I meant :p

purplepirate · December 2018

@Katanauwo i get that but it seems ships were more responsive back on OGP than they are here.

Spookles · December 2018

@pp I made a video a while ago where I recorded and showed my time from turning & actually making the turn. These numbers were around ~1-2seconds. I just checked some older footage from UWO players where that time seemed to be the same.

When you check your ping to UWO it shows your latency, which in my case is 90ms. Latency is both ways. So that's probably ~40ms to NA, ~10ms processing, ~40ms back to EU. In most games (in my case) I immediately leave the game, like 90-100ms isn't even fun to play with. Or to play against.

Go do a game like Rocket League, CS:GO, League of Legends. 100ms is literally unplayable. And I got a decent internet connection 50down/10up. I can imagine some dude living in idk where might have some trash connections, some dudes in my CO barely get 1mb download. These players will probably have even more latency. If you live in NA (where the servers are) you might have ~40ms total. Compare that to someone with 150 and you'll notice some weird moves from the other player or him critting you when that's theoretically impossible on your own screen.

Having asians/europeans/americans all of them in one server is cool, but it has massive drawbacks.

Spookles · December 2018

These are three types of server architectures, simply said we got the one on the left, all players connect to one master server. The middle one would be ideal, servers spread across the world while the servers themselves have a fast connection with each other to rapidly share data.

The third option is that we not only play the game but in a way also host the game. Comparable to torrenting as example.

Anyway this is more for Papaya to figure out, if you're curious here's a buttload of cool information if you're a big IT geek like me.

kanatta · December 2018

kanatanauwo: "You have been living with lag free environment for way too long, and have grown acustom to how awesome you evade other’s crit attempt."

That could probably explain it all very well probably I just wasn't considering my lag in my own observations...

A curious thing that I knew a player called Armie back in OGP's days, that same player knew much about things like you mentioned: " the server has a global queue scan to which your action is placed every 1 or 2 seconds depending on the natureof your command."

Would be curious if that didn't have something to do with that player getting a short ban back in OGP's day, do you recall anything of that nature by chance?

Spookles · December 2018

Would
be curious if that didn't have something to do with that player getting
a short ban back in OGP's day, do you recall anything of that nature by
chance?

No clue, but I can imagine that if a player would flood the servers with a ton of commands it might give you a short ban/kick. (Thus fighting these lag switches you mentioned)

Katanauwo · December 2018

Server global cooldown is a well known knowledge. I saw it from a forum article long time ago, tried it, and it worked like charm.

My main was Katana, if you barely remember her?
I joined the battle leagues a few times and got some reasonable result. I have on average 300+ ms ping.

The server’s global cool down on actions is to allow latency disadvantaged players to have a level play field. But sometimes it could mean you miss the window of a scan and is then placed in a next scan, depending on your latency.

When i landed a crit in the past, i need to anticipate what the victim would do in the next two seconds, looking for sign of turning. As soon as i saw the sign i hit the space and wouldnt care whether that will be a crit or not. 20% of the time i got a crit.

We had a lot of top players in the past. They master the art of timing. With all due respect, kanatta, the way you play look more like reactive style relying on good ping. There is still a lot for you to learn if you are keen.

Server lag spike is not just due to latency. The amount of server resource would affect the process time and process priority. When a host is prepared to withdraw, the server would usually be put on low resource. We noticed a lot of lag spike half a year before OGP quitted. Ask yourself a question, does papaya’s reputation stands to a long living host, or just another cash cow milking scheme.

People Cheating Causing Lag?

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