Server bug/ cheap tickets from yesterday

Culvern · November 2017

I know it's not against policy.
But do you truly and honestly believe that when Koei created the game that they said "we want everyone to play multiple toons at the same time but we will make it so they have to run multiple sessions or computers to do so"?
Does anyone Honestly believe that?
Papaya allows it but the game was not designed, created , coded for that to be the case. We all know that.
Papaya allows it and you know that you can get away with it. But that does not mean that is how the game is Supposed to be played.
Just like you know you are breaking the rules when you speed, we all still do it.
I don't care if you multi, but be honest about it.

aceman39 · November 2017

Ok think about this. Koei made the game. So they coded it and designed it. Then that must mean they coded it where alts can be used as the server only gives the game a platform to run on

Katanauwo · November 2017

Rofl. I pity you guys.

It is obvious that the game is at the beginning of its end.

First deliberately reduce to low price to get everyone excited so that they buy uwc in order to take advantage, then declare it was a mistake and take away what peole got from uwc. Hahs typical trick!

Netmarble had the same kind of “mistake” with 1 nc boosts.

You have all been fooled.

Good luck to your miserable future towards another server reset.

shelleyl · November 2017

When I was in college, I worked retail,(anybody remember Mervyns's?) back before bar codes and the rest of modern computer systems. If somebody put the wrong sign on a rack, or put the wrong items on a sale rack, or forgot to take a sign down when the ad changed, we had to honor the sale price. We would then go take the sign down until we got it sorted out. It didn't happen a lot, but it happened. Papaya in this case put the wrong price in the system when they were down for the update, didn't double-check it before they went live. They should have been paying attention, sounds like it took them a while to recognize the mistake, but they did eventually. In the meantime, some folks got a helluva deal. I missed it, sadly, or I would of bought some of the tickets too. Its nobody's fault but the dude that didn't check the code. Move on, nothing to see here folks.

Twitchalot · November 2017

If Papaya Play is going to allow TOS violations to happen without consequence, then they are setting a very poor precedent for the server. No RL $$ from me, ever.

CrzyPsycoChick · November 2017

1.They broke no TOS violations as Papaya hasnt said they broke any. Players dont determine TOS violations the Publisher does unil THEY say they did they officially have NOT.

2. The player may not have known the price of said ticket. I personally never ever bought one ever nore saw the price of one so i dont know the price. So i should be banned if I bought one if people said hey a sale is going on buy one? how would I know what is the real price to even "want" to consult Papaya on what the real price is or if a sale is going on or perhaps a change in business model maybe they want them cheap but they lower success rate BIG POSSIBILITY this could happen and has happened before I guess before every purchase now every player must write a ticket and wait 4 weeks for a response before buying just so we dont get banned. NO SENSE

3.where in the TOS does it state I must check PRICES set by the provider? bugs exploits yes but we are talking PRICES and advertisements. show me.

4. show me the logic of perma banning people for paying the price set by the provider. That is FAR worse as it will mean at any time if you so happen to buy something and Papaya posted wrong price you are banned NO PLAYER WILL EVER BUY from the cash shop again theyd be afraid too including me it not worth a permaban.

5.Where is the logic blaming us players and not Papaya for this? why wipe the entire server pisses everyone off THEN on top of all that you ban people for buying from the shop when THEY(Papaya) F'ed up?!?! Where is the logic. THAT will further lower Papaya approval and kill the server.

lose 30% due to wipe

lose another 20% due to banning LEGIT buyers

lose another 20% due to player base has dropping to half

If Papaya F's up and follows that advice I Predict the Player base will drop 70%. so let them slide on events ticks or lose 70% of our base to "do the right thing" oh please. let it go or offer another sale for evryone. SIMPLE

Twitchalot · November 2017

Using circular logic to try to circumvent the fact the the players that took advantage of the bug(yes, bug) knew what they were doing was wrong is erroneous CPC. Papaya made a mistake, yes. It was the fact that players took advantage of the mistake knowing that it was wrong to do so. And don't try to tell me that at least some of the players that bought those cheap tickets didn't know it was a bug and that what they were doing was wrong. As for "offer another sale for everyone", putting more tickets at the same price for a period of time that is announced well ahead to everyone and during hours that everyone is ok to log in for would be the only way to implement something like that, A logistical nightmare, but sure.

Twitchalot · November 2017

Followup:If they do put on the cheap ticket sale, how will we know if the drop rates for ships etc. will be the same as the other cheap tickets and also, will they have the same ships/items as the other ones did? Just wondering.

CrzyPsycoChick · November 2017

I get what you mean about some players did knowingly take advantage yes but thats not the issue.

The issue is this: There are some that simply purchased UNKNOWINGLY or perhaps saw the price and thought it was a sale. HOW do you determine which players were nefarious and which were not? You cant so to be "fair" you would have to ban them ALL whether nefarious or not. You get what I mean what you suggest is ASSUMING ALL players who purchased knew it was a mistake and are to be rightfully banned even though undoubtedly some were simply unaware. Its never ever that simple as good or bad black or white...heres a gray area

If you punish just 1 person undeservedly and word gets out kiss the sales of the cash shop goodbye nobody would trust it.

Assumptions that ALL were deviant are very dangeous and thats what the basis is of what youre suggesting. Thats my point as far as a fire sale later for everyone for like 5 mins Im cool with that sounds the most fair to me lol.

Old saying: "When you Assume you make an A$$ out of you and me"

Never Assume...

Twitchalot · November 2017

All a fire sale will be is a salve to some consciences, but fine. And you talk about "the kiss of death for the server". I'd say the overall lack of moral integrity that was displayed regarding this would be more of an issue than trying to take a stand against it. But then I'm just a doddering old man and that may be just me and my old fashioned ways. But it's that kind of lack of moral integrity that will make me keep my money to myself. I'l still play though, just f2p.

Twitchalot · November 2017

OK, heard about a "Fire Sale" on Tickets being announced in game, perhaps it would be wise(read:ethical) to also at least have something in the Announcements section of the forums as well. I'd say a mail from Papaya Play to each account, but some would say that's excessive.

slaanesh · November 2017

Considering they did a rollback to just when server whent offline for patch I doubt any got to keep any thing from the cheep stuff.

binkl1965 · November 2017

They used a bug in the system to exploit the system. That, in of itself, is how they bought the tickets illegally.

When you signed up to play the game, you were given a notice that you had to agree to before you could play. I can assume that most players do not take the time to read the notice. I, for one, did read it. It clearly states that players agree to adhere to the rules of the game and not use any exploits or bugs.

This is a bug, therefore, it was their decision to use this bug knowing that they could be banned for doing so. Because they made that decision, Papaya play's only real course of action is to ban those accounts from the server.

If papaya play allows those players to keep their illegally obtained tickets, they should give every other player in the server the exact same amount of tickets.... make it fair for everyone or ban those who used the bug to their advantage.

thaarsheblows · November 2017

Guess what mate, GMs don't give a flying crap about it. You'll see if Papaya's gonna be any different from OGP.... LOL, that's a joke itself. Btw, I'll straight up donate my account if they don't do anything about it.. :P

kadams · November 2017

Having spent nothing in the game yet, if I had bought tickets, or any other items, at a super low price, I wouldn't have been aware of the normal cost. Chances are, when I later saw the prices rise, I'd assume when I bought they were having a special event/sale when I spent money.

The majority of players have already been punished for doing nothing wrong. Add a new punishment for spending money, in any amount, and they might just say bye to the game - especially those who didn't realize there was something wrong with the prices.

Besides, we don't yet know how stable the population will be going into 2018. One month into the game it seems okay, but it's going to take time to figure out if all the apparent new players are genuinely new ones trying out the game, or just players training up extra characters. From what I see in school chat, there are new players, but historically, this game loses a high percentage of beginners.

I will admit, if I had noticed the special pricing I might have bought 1 or 2 items, assuming PP was okay with earning a smaller profit.

Culvern · November 2017

They did have a giant add claiming black Friday event. So I would assume that the tickets were on a black Friday sale and bought them cheap if I saw them. Does that make me evil?
A game bug is something that is wrong with the coding of the game, not prices that are set in the store. Chances are you all have bought some of the item from those tickets that people got cheap, perhaps you should also be banned for that?

Twitchalot · November 2017

Pricing of items in the Cash Shop is coding, therefore, it was a bug, plain and simple. More "circular logic balm" won't change that.

CrzyPsycoChick · November 2017

Circular reasoning is when you attempt to make an argument by beginning with an assumption that what you are trying to prove is already true. In your premise, you already accept the truth of the claim you are attempting to make. ... Examples of Circular Reasoning: The Bible is true, so you should not doubt the Word of God.

By definition yes we are practicing circular logic as I ASSUMED some people did not know about the error without definite proof

But... You are also practicing circular logic as well by assuming the tickets were purchased for below the normal price therefore they all knew it was wrong and did it any way .

To be completely fair let's all agree to this there is simply not enough evidence to prove they all or some knew or didn't know it was an error in pricing and more importantly no way to find out. Without enough evidence to prove either argument lets just leave it to Papaya to decide.

Katanauwo · November 2017

Everyone act as good f they really care for PPP. However lots of them probably hav been thinking

“darn, why was i not there when the ‘fire sale’ came out?! If i dont get it, nobody should!”

Or

“Hah i got tons of tickets in low price. I bought them via a legitimate channel and therefore my act has to be legitimate!”

The thought then was translated into obligation of pricing, TOS violation etc.

PPP probably is laughing out loud for how many new revenue they created via a “bugged” (possibly planned) fire sale, and then contain the proliferation of premium items by a server reset.

Smart play by PPP!

Twitchalot · November 2017

And I repeat "And don't try to tell me that at least some of the players that bought those cheap tickets didn'y know that it was a bug and that what they were doing was wrong" I know that some players may have bought tickets "in good faith". Therefore, no circular logic here. However, to quote you CPC: "I get what you mean about some players did knowingly take advantage yes but thats not the issue" First, you using the the words."some players" is an acknowledgement that I do say that some are guilty. some are not, and is therefore an acknowledgement of my not using circular logic. Second, that is exactly the issue. Players knowingly committed TOS violations and Papaya Play has seemingly decided to let that slide. Which is setting a very bad precedent for the new server. We mere mortals will probably never know how(if at all) things got dealt with regarding this mess unless Papaya Play decides to tell us. But if a level of moral terpitude like that is allowed to creep into the server, it does not bode well at all for anyone who plays.

Culvern · November 2017

Twitch have you bought any items from another player since the cheap tickets event?
If so then you are just as guilty. Perhaps you should set the moral standard and ban yourself.

aceman39 · November 2017

See people like Twitch believe the people who bought the tickets should be banned now I agree that you can't ban then cause the server made the mistake and people that never bought that stuff before and had no clue what the price is. So you can't ban people for a mistake on the developers side when some people are innocent cause they didn't know. So saying to ban people is wrong

Twitchalot · November 2017

I've bought 1 ship, a MSSX from a company member a few days ago that I believed when they told me they'd just purchased the tickets they opened. But it would probably take Papaya Play to prove that. Whatever. The lack of moral fiber I've seen that goes unchecked is not good to say the least, and if gets worse I see stormy seas ahead.....

Culvern · November 2017

That ship you bought is most likely from the cheap tickets. You should not profit from such crimes because that makes you just as guilty.
I would suggest you destroy the ship and turn yourself in to do the proper moral thing.

CrzyPsycoChick · November 2017

I have no issue punishing people who knowingly defraud Papaya but figure out the answer to the following scenario.

On nov 18 Papaya posted the wrong price for event tickets for a few hours. During that time the following players bought tickets :

Player A bought 20 tickets

Player B bought 20 tickets

Player C bought 20 tickets

Player D bought 20 tickets

Given JUST this information Which of these players knowingly attempted to defraud Papaya and which simply were unaware of an error occurred as they thought it was a sale?

To all players saying Papaya shouldn't "let This slide" tell me how can Papaya go about solving the above scenario and determining who to ban and who should not be banned?

theedgedemon · November 2017

@Twitchalot that is the problem exactly, let's say someone bough 1000 tickets at that price (im pretty sure some people did), even at reduced price we are talking 300$ or so, to "punish" people for that buy, they would need to trace the people who bough the tickets then prove that person was knowingly abusing the systems beyond doubt, and lastly punish a player willing to dump 300$ into their game in a single stroke, the first 2 likely require more invests than what they could gain, the third equals scaring away a good customer.

P.D.: your next answer is "they don't really need to prove anything", which is partly truth but in F2Pay games reputation is their real selling point and not even trying to pretend they do would damage that beyond repair.

@Culvern "the Intent of the game" under your definition which unless you happen to own a koei employee badge from 2006-2017 is worth nothing to anyone. we don't tell you how to enjoy the game, why do you think we would care what you think of how we enjoy it?

@THawk and @Katanauwo im pretty sure by know you don't even log in the game to play, why do you keep trying to make drama here for a game you don't want to participate in? why do you think we would like to hear what you have to say about it?

Culvern · November 2017

Yes edge you can cheat if you want, it is not up to me to decide if you cheat or not.

Twitchalot · November 2017

@ Culvern. My morality is not in question Cicero, but nice try. Also, you continue to post in anonymity, so, what you say really means.....nothing. And I'm not 100% certain, but, isn't sending a message to any player telling them to delete their character(s) and quit the game a TOS violation? However, that's another thing for Papaya Play to determine and not the players, as it is with the situation regarding the Tickets. All I've really maintained through this is that some did knowingly violate the TOS, taht they should be dealt with accordingly, and that we'll probably never know what really happened unless Papaya Play decides to tell us. Do I like that? No. Can I live with it? Yes. 'Nuff said

Culvern · November 2017

Anonymity?
Culvern is my in game name.
I never sent you a tell asking you to delete your character either. All I said was you should stand by your own words of moral high standard you tell everyone to stand for.

Twitchalot · November 2017

No, you never set me a tell asking me to delete my character. That wouldn't be possible. You did however post on this thread a suggestion that I do, not once but twice:

1) "Twitch have you bought any items from another player since the cheap tickets event? If so then you are just as guilty. Perhaps you should set the moral standard and ban yourself"

2) "That ship you bought is most likely from the cheap tickets. You should
not profit from such crimes because that makes you just as guilty. I would suggest you destroy the ship and turn yourself in to do the proper moral thing."

Now, admittedly that first one has the qualifier "Perhaps" and the second one is a bit ambiguous(do the proper moral thing), but I think anyone with even a rudimentary grasp of the English language understands what you're asking me to do. And I politely decline. As for the ship, I bought it in good faith from a company member. And I've always maintained that there in fact were some players that bought the cheap tickets in good faith. Does that make me party to the crime I'm saying was perpetrated? I have to admit there is that possibility. But it's really the same for all of us now at this point isn't it? Are you going to ask everyone to do what you're asking me to do then? Not likely. As I've always said, we'll never know what really happened unless Papaya Play tells us. Let's see how that plays out.

Server bug/ cheap tickets from yesterday

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