Prices & Players

KrisPBacon · November 2017

Yesterday, I spent 3 hours in the game asking for a price check for an item.

3 hours of requesting the PC every couple of minutes.

No one responded.

Just before I logged out a player came up to me and said that the item was worth only about 4m. He said he would pay me 4m for the item. Just when I was about to make the trade, that player accidentally used regular chat (say) and told someone else that he was going to get my item for 4m and sell to someone else for the actual price.... his next reply was sorry wrong chat.... So he tried to scam me.

I then warned the World Chat (merchant) about the scammer so that they would be careful in dealing with him. I didn't need to warn WC. I don't need to warn anyone. I did it because I am a nice person and care about others and want to help them whenever I can.

What is funny about it is, everyone blamed me and stood behind him, even though no one can be 100% positive that the old OGP/Netmarble toon and the new toon are one in the same person.

The scammer, could very well be, a known scammer from the OGP/Netmarble days who took advantage of the server wipe and created a toon using a name that was an upstanding player over there.

But people defended him. They said, "You are the fault, not him.... you should know the prices..."

Well, why would I know the price when I was asking in WC for a price check???

What is so funny about this is, that player who tried to scam me was confronted in WC by at least 10 others who he tried to scam and he always claimed they were my alts. I have 1 alt on the same account I use. I do not have any other accounts. That alt is strictly for storage and doesn't even play the game. I am not worried about the scammer anymore, he and his alts are blocked.

This topic is here for one purpose only, to wake people up and open their eyes because they really don't know who has the toon now. Maybe there was a known scammer in OGP/Netmarble days that used the name JohnDoe and everyone knew who he was and what he did. Now with the server wipe and reset, he picked another name, let's say DanielSan (this is not the scammer, I am just using a name everyone remembers from OGP/Netmarble of an upstanding player) and everyone considers him to be an upstanding player when in fact it is a known scammer who just picked a name that was upstanding in the OGP/Netmarble days.

As for the scammer, you have been blocked in the game. I know you are a scammer even if no one else does. Because I know, I will never ever come to your assistance. You have not hurt me, you have hurt yourself. Oh and as time goes by, I can see already that, more and more people will register you as a scammer. You can change your name all you want. Once a scammer, always a scammer in my book.

lefox271 · November 2017

I don't understand the point you are making.

Someone offers you 4mil for an item you want to sell. He/she plans to sell it for more money to a third player.

Isn't that called trading?

The trader is making money from having a better knowledge of the market and a wider range of contacts than you or I have. Developing a trading business takes work. Why shouldn't a person benefit from that?

Would you have been satisfied with 4mil? Nothing has a fixed price - price is just what someone is willing to pay.

My inventory space is usually so limited I'm just pleased to get rid of the stuff LOL.

HelloAll · November 2017

@lefox271 I think the point is that the op requested a pc, the guy gave her an incorrect pc in order to buy it cheap and sell it for its genuine value... that is a scam. And if you read the ops post again you will see that.

@KrisPbacon I feel sad for you that this happened. It shouldn’t and I would report this person to papaya.

But also I request you name the person here so others may be careful when dealing with them.

It’s irregular that a person doesn’t get a pc when requested.
Next time keep asking, and only accept pc given in world/trade chat. Then no one can scam, because if they lie about price in world/merch chat, they will be called out very quickly.

Hope you continue to enjoy the game after this experience.

KrisPBacon · November 2017

I did report it to papaya. I still have yet to hear back from them.

As for posting the players name here, not going to happen because they have many people who stuck up for the player who has that name. I do not want to have to defend myself in the game just because someone tried to scam me and their friends say that they would never do that...

The screen shots are in the support ticket. Papaya can decide if that player tried to scam me and take appropriate measures.

KrisPBacon · November 2017

I made that mistake of posting a scammer's name on the OGP forums and I was hunted down by that scammer and his friends so much that I took a few months off and went to play something else. When I came back, I did a name change so I could play the game again.

The person who tried to scam me this time, I warned others in WC and was pm'd by a few of his friends who said they would never do that and I was lying and if I kept it up, they would run me out of the server.... papaya has those screen shots too....

I will wait and let papaya handle it. If they deem he tried to scam me, then they have the power to make sure that he doesn't try to scam others.

lefox271 · November 2017

There's a lot about this game which could be considered ethically dubious - LOL

@KrisPBacon - you were obviously unhappy about the player's behaviour. It's not nice that someone made you feel as if you were scammed.

But on the other hand, it strikes me that to call this 'scamming' and to report it to Papaya is an over-reaction.

There is nothing sacrosanct about prices. They're not fixed. It's just what people are prepared to buy and sell at.

@KrisPBacon you would have been happy with 4mil. The middleman get's a cut. The guy at the end gets the object.

Seller beware. If I want to get more for the stuff I sell then I need to put some effort into understanding the market.

But I also agree with @HelloAll if someone is untrustworthy put his/her name out there.

(Just want to make it clear - I've got no idea who we're talking about, and I'm as likely to give a General's Orb to a bar maid as a present as to try and sell it - that's what it's worth to me).

Lerxst · November 2017

You didn't know something. Another player took advantage of your ignorance. That's called "playing" a game. UWO is a game. It's not like the guy stole your credit card number.

HelloAll · November 2017

@Lerxst if a player offers a price (a low one) and the other player accepts...that’s playing the game.

In the case the player gave an incorrect PC on the item and then made an offer. That is scamming.

And id like to think that most on uwo don’t try to take advantage of “ignorance” as you call it.
Most experience players are not ignorant to prices therefore what you are saying is - taking advantage of “new” players, which I don’t agree with at all.

Anyone...ANYONE, Who gives and incorrect PC (intentionally) and then offers to buy for said price is scamming.
And everyone knows that.

HanukkahHarry · November 2017

It always upsets me when someone lowballs a player. A little off no big deal but if it was a major price difference then it is. Just out of curiosity what was the item you were trying to sell and maybe someone will post the correct price here.

CrzyPsycoChick · November 2017

Hi Kris we met in game a lil while back you seem sweet but let me give you some advice.

1. There is NO set player price in game for anything every price is based on supply and demand and players need to get rid of or lack of info on an item. With that said this is not scamming; scamming is like lending a ship and person doesn't return it, shipbuilder taking ships to mod and stealing it or intentionally lying about an item ie. Selling sewing kits as Mtt or renaming a barca to AFCV and claiming its one to sell it. What the player in your case did was simply offer a low price in a legit sale... Dirty but not scamming you can't report that or Papaya would have thousands of tickets per day claiming scams.

2. In my experience it's best to warn people in pm not publicly and ask them not to say it was you who warned them or it opens you up to retaliation now if you bad a** enough and want the drama and can defend yourself then cool go for it... But you don't seem to be a big fighter so I don't recommend this.

3. Here is my legendary trick to getting a price check... If you ask for a price check and you don't receive one instead do what I call "elimination" it's where you won't know the exact price but you will know what is NOT the price. It works like this say this instead...

I heard the price of (item) is(super high price) is this the real price? Or vice versa

Some one said This item is (high price) is the person trolling me?

People often may not know the price but they won't sit there and let you make more money than them they Will speak and say that's BS its too high or too low or argue over the price this has worked 90% of the time I tried it. This will stop you from being taken advantage of so you can wait until you get a real price then sell and shrug off BS offers in the meantime.

4. Lastly don't take it personal people want to make money at all costs their simply playing with THEIR interests at heart not yours it simply is what it is don't take it personal and get offended.

Good luck

Dyhalto · November 2017

While not related to this event I'd love to see a sales history in the company shops so you can actually see what *insert item here* is actually selling for rather than having to look at the various listed prices and GUESS if they sell at that rate. nearly every gave I've played with auction houses have a system like that.. so what the heck dont we yet?

Katanauwo · November 2017

To OP,

Those “everyone” are probably his alts.

Over that many years good people move on while scammers remain for the last attempt of getting rich before the game is over.

The entire world chat merchant is filled with scammers / resellers / liars / alts, whose sole income is from taking advantage on others. The rich newbie with a lack of information is the best prey.

If i were you i would not buy anything from merchant channel.

Twitchalot · November 2017

As a long time veteran of UWO(6 years), one of the things I understand more from that perspective is the need for new players. And quite frankly, I see it as the most important things regarding the game that there is. Because bottom line, without new players, the game will die. And one of the things that dissuades new players a lot is veteran players who create alts who go into school chat and do things like offer to "help" the new players by buying stuff(in PM) from them at ridiculously low prices as far as what would be considered fair market value(ie: offering them 50k for any Purchase Orders). These new players then find out later what fair market value actually is on the items they sold, and decide that if there are more players like the ones who "helped" them, then this game is not for them. All because some other players either have a grudge against UWO, or Papaya Play, or are just that type of person that gets their enjoyment from life by doing things that are mean, spiteful and petty to others. And they're like real life criminals too, they use loopholes in the rules(laws) to protect themselves and accuse others. My term for them is "snakes in the grass". Sadly, there's not much that any host has been able to about players like the ones that do things like that, that without a doubt have had and still are having an effect on the games population of actual new players. One of the things that did help with that was the Firstmate Program, which consisted of veteran giving freely of their time to operate a Firstmate character in School Chat to help newer players. Papaya Play would do well to re-institute this very helpful program, however, until then, something must be done to "keep the footpads away from the door" so to speak So, as it was before, so shall it be again: I will, hopefully along with the help of others(as before) be keeping an alt in School Chat to occasionally log in announce fair market value prices on a few items that newer players generally get, and telling others be sure to get real price checks on items they sell because of players(no specific names) that offer very low prices.

lefox271 · November 2017

I take your point, and no one like people who take dishonest advantage of others.

But I haven't seen much evidence of it as a problem. New players don't pick up the kind of gear that's worth selling for a start.

If newbies try out the game and then give up it's because it doesn't suit them. As a community we are mostly welcoming and helpful.

Twitchalot · November 2017

Veteran players taking advantage of new players like that is a total detriment to the server no matter how you look at it, because it shows new players early in their experience with UWO that there are players like that in the game. And that that kind of thing going on unchecked in this community is not the type of thing they or their family want to be a part of.

JustToTalk · November 2017

That sounds like a reseller. Out of 10 resellers, 9 of them are scammers.

Resellers will always defend themselves saying that they are a businessman, but the point is, did you notice, they always ended up being scolded and taken as a scammer.

The logic is simple:

If EVERYTIME you run a business, and you ended up been scolded by EVERYONE, that it just mean...

You are a scammer, you are not a business man. As simple as that.

lefox271 · November 2017

Where do you get your 9 out of 10 number from? It's just speculation.

Who really knows how many re-sellers there are?

Well, maybe CPC knows (see above).

They get a bad press for sure. But it's just generalisation with no real evidence. You don't know they are nearly all 'bad' people.

Some (or many - who knows?) might be offended by that.

HeavyWater · November 2017

@lefox271

'The trader is making money from having a better knowledge of the market and a wider range of contacts than you or I have. Developing a trading business takes work. Why shouldn't a person benefit from that?'

You say it as if it's OP's fault that they're not aware of the actual price. They did mention they asked for a price check for three hours. I don't know about you, but as far as I know, none of us have psychic powers (apologies if I offend some people in saying that). Thus to scold OP for not knowing the market is misguided/ignorant as without a price check how could they have known?

ssd21345 · November 2017

It's like people are generally friendly around all chat server suddenly because a "scammer" gets into merchant chat and "scam" a random guy and then the image is ruined by that guy. Similar to "blah blah Islam are terrorist" misconception these days.

You think UWO will only lose one guy? Don't forget, you can leave reviews in the various places.

And if a lot of people are indifferent to these newbies, sadly, I will think the community is toxic. UWO will be flooded with bad reviews again.

ssd21345 · November 2017

And MMO runs on population. If money-spenders cannot be satisfied because spending is useless(aka cannot show off), they will not spend. MMO will die. Especially UWO will die slowly if we ignore small problems like these.

Twitchalot · November 2017

It never ceases to amaze me how some players can come across as the sanctimoniously pious injured party while they defend their position regarding actions in-game that drive away new players and give our whole community bad name.

JustToTalk · November 2017

"The trader is making money from having a better knowledge of the market and a wider range of contacts than you or I have. Developing a trading business takes work. Why shouldn't a person benefit from that?"

This is a statement that comes from lefox271

When I read somebody's post, I would try to understand his points of view, and why and where comes his logic in his posts.

This statement looks reasonable in a certain logic, but not in motives.

Given said, I can do business in several ways as follow.

No1, I can take a pack of vitamins capsule and persuade an old granny to buy it with a high price, telling her that capsule will give her strength and health.

No2, I can too take this pack of vitamins capsule and sell it to some place which is lack of this goods and willing to buy a high price from me.

No3, I can too take pack of vitamins capsule and sell it to a clinic which has no information on this capsule.

In the case of No3, I am making use of somebody lack of knowledge in making profit.

In the case of No2, I am making use of somebody urgency in making profit.

While in the case of No1, I am making use of any targets, whether its an old granny or a youngster who just step in the society knowing nothing, I cheat him/her, and I make my profit.

I am not against resellers, but so far from what I dealt with resellers is, they ALWAYS SCAM. And when you scammed for a profit, you are a scammer, you are definitely not a businessman.

The easiest target they always targeted are the new joined players, or newbies who just starting to learn the game, because these are the targets who knows nothing at all.

While all the old and veterans work hard in leading newbies, trying to give them a good start, encouragement, and a pleasant environment to play with, resellers only come to hurt them and encourage them to quit the game.

For what? For just one successful scam of profit.

That is why we are against resellers. It is not we against the nature of what they making profits. It is about the way they hurt the game for their own greed and selfishness.

Twitchalot · November 2017

+1 'Nuff said.

dsmack1 · November 2017

In wc on a new server nobody wants to be the one to nail the price or be the guy that helps 'set' a price so sometimes price checks will go unanswered for hours. But this also used to happen on gama because sometimes chat is just too busy or answering the same question get's tiresome.

Everybody loves to be the correcter or the you are an idiot guy, though. At times if i noticed a pc not getting answered and i wasn't super sure i'd just say something like the 20-100m thing was "worth 1b i think" and everyone and their mother would call me idiot no it's 55m.

It works ;)

Byrdman

Twitchalot · November 2017

I LIKE it! An excellent idea.

KrisPBacon · November 2017

@lefox271 - So, let's say you are a fairly new player and you open a captain's ticket. You get a ship or something that is worth billions.... you ask for a price check in WC. No one responds. After a little while, you get a PM message from someone who tells you that the ship is not worth much, maybe 4m tops... then they say that they will pay you the 4m to take it off your hands.... In truth, you find out right before the trade that the real price of that ship is worth say, 6 billion.... and at the same time, this player who is trying to get you to confirm the trade accidentally says in regular chat (say) that he is about to get a 6 billion coin ship for 4m from some noob ....

Now, would you call that scamming?

But it went further than that.... after I canceled the trade, he made threats to use his pirate alt to sink me constantly.

When I posted he was a scammer in WC to warn everyone else.... his so-called friends (maybe they were his alts, idk) also made threats because I smeared his so-called good name in WC.... all I did was try to warn others that he was trying to scam me.... I was being polite about it.

In talking with others, this same player has attempted multiple times to do this to others as well... Now I don't know what his or her problem is, and I don't care.

I also could care less who people think he is.

No one knows for sure, if the player who is currently using that name, is the same player who had that name on Gama.

Take my name for instance. When I transferred my OGP account over here, I tried creating a character that had the same name as what I had on OGP. I could not. Someone else had decided my name was really awesome and they created a character using that name. That character has my old name, but it is not me. The people in the company that he is in, believe that he is me.... he's not.

So really there is no way to tell if the person who tried to scam me is the same person from the OGP server or just someone who chose that name....

The character's name who tried to scam me, may or may not be the same player from OGP.

I tend to believe that he is not. I believe that he was a known scammer in OGP using a different name and was well known by all the players there, as a scammer. He chose the name he uses now, because he knows that the old player who had the name he is using was an up-standing player and people would defend his honor and debunk the scamming claims...

But the truth always comes out. He might have a new name here, but he is still trying to scam new players.

So I have him blocked. I refuse to help him. I refuse to trade with him. If he walks up to a shop I am running, I cancel the shop. I will not help or support him in any way because he tried to scam me.

lefox271 · November 2017

@KrisPBacon

I hear what you say. This guy is clearly not a nice person. I apologise if you felt offended by anything I said.

theedgedemon · November 2017

@KrisPBacon i do have fun breaking peoples bubbles anyway so here we go:

a) i would call that scamming too BUT, buying too low or selling too high are not offenses, all deals are final and is the buyer or seller the one entitled to check that he gives and receives what he wanted, it is not the GM work, nor is it a break of ToS and he will not be punished no matter how many reports you make about it.

b) He threatening you with his pirate alt is also common and not punishable either, after all piracy is part of the game, we all have both befriended and fought pirates at some point in here, he will not be punished for that either.

c) the "his friends threatening you", could be considered harassment which is punishable, this could lead to some sanctions, it was good for you to report this, 2 players having a personal feud is ok, several players grouping up intentionally to ruin a single player fun is not.

i'm glad you decided not to post the name here however, because that could be a break on rules of conduct on your part, once hes cleared of the "scamming" charges you could face defamation, i do consider that adding them to ignore is the only sensible answer.

Lastly a piece of advice, all things change with perspective, if you partake in world chat and make a case of the offer/situation you could get players on your side, if you never speak but suddenly start writing something along the lines of "xxxx is a scammer" each 15 seconds you will only get the community against you, because people who only join to spam without meaningful message are easily mistaken as trolls, even if they did have the reason to do so.

inksm3ar · November 2017

On a note a little off to the side of this post:

If anyone would like to message me in game about PCs I have some relative knowledge of most items and those I don't I have resources enough to find the price for you. I think all players, new and old, should have the resources at hand to make educated decisions

~ IGN Inks

aldrizneriss2 · December 2017

@KrisPBacon

charge it to experience.. admit your mistakes and learn from it.. next time, you'll do better..

in my opinion its your mistake. asking for a PC on WC does not mean its 100% guaranteed. and to call it scamming is making it sound worse.\

just an opinion..

Katanauwo · December 2017

Lol, the new player’s mistake!!

This is like saying “A girl was raped and it was her mistake wearing short skirt.”

Obviously good people have left. What Remained are mostly heartless scammers and newbie predators. The age of decency died with OGP shutdown.

For anyone who are still rational, do not feed your dollars into this game. Play if you must. Just do not spend resl money, or you would regret when you see your credit card bill. This game is ok, but its jink rated host and the predatory community is certainly not worthy for anyone’s hard earn money.

Prices & Players

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