5 Man multi fleets please Enforce this rule.

CrzyPsycoChick · November 2017

I've said it many times before if you are exceeding the 3 per iP limit I do not have an issue with banning for that

The issue is if someone is breaking that rule and someone else innocent fleets with them for whatever reason SB fleet or quest, fleet for nanban or even a tow you get screenshotted with that player EVERYONE in fleet is banned innocent person included. That is wrong and makes people afraid to fleet 5 people. Whether you believe their story or not shouldn't just shrug them off as liars.

The witch hunt is causing innocent people to get banned on some guilty by association BS despite them not actually breaking the rule...and I'll repeat the witch hunt getting innocent players banned is causing MORE damage to the game than any multi ever could.

If had to choose between getting innocent players banned hunting multis or live with multis...id choose live with multis EVERY TIME.

Twitchalot · November 2017

The laws of most counties are based on the principle that "everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty" and "that it's better that 1000 criminals go free than 1 innocent person go to jail." Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case with everything surrounding this issue. If this trend continues and innocent players keep getting banned or leave the game because of this, I'd have to say that this server will not survive into 2018 very far, if at all. And it's all thanks to the few players that complained the loudest about this.

pekkauwer · November 2017

i guess im lucky im playing solo character since netmarble era

Culvern · November 2017

I agree that it is horrible if people are getting banned just by association with rule breakers.
Obviously that is not good for the game.
Let's hope that is not truly the situation.
And if it is then let's hope that things change.
We all want the best for the game in the long run.

JustToTalk · November 2017

There is a saying in my place of birth -- "When there are two bad choices you have in your hand to pick from, pick the one that gives you the less destruction."

It is not I not knowing banning 5 toons in a fleet will involved innocent ppl. But the fact is, players apply 5 fleets more towards in cheating rather than performing a "healthy gaming practice"

It is needed to ban 5 toons in a fleet, no matter what the course. We must encourage tthe players to play only one or max 2 accounts but not a uwo filled with alts.

The point is: We want to see more human players in the game.

HelloAll · November 2017

I have neither been one to complain or report anyone for anything in this game.

But I will say one thing.

People here are blaming the moaners or snitches because some banning mistakes have happened. Now I do feel sad for Jose banned by mistake.

But to blame the snitches I think is unfair, the ones to blame are the ones who have abused the multi boxing.

If it was never abused in the first place this whole issue wouldn’t be a problem.

Ok maybe some would still accuse others, but it wouldn’t be on the scale it is now.

If there is unfair bannings it’s wrong, but the ones at fault are the abusers, not the complainers.

JustToTalk · November 2017

It is a choice we must make, and this is the choice that is correct and should be taken. In fact, we already practice it in our real life.

The jury and court system implemented isn't really all fair as well. Innocent people been jailed. Poor people are mostly a victim to the rich.

So, ask yourselves a question, since this system fail to bring justice to a 100%, and happen to jail innocent people, why we still implement it? Ask yourself why and you will understand.

If you allow 5 toons in a fleet in different ip or not, players will abuse it no matter what the reason they give.

You ban the 5 toons, yes, you might lose some very extremely minority players who "happens to have 5 players in a household", but you create a gaming environment that suit to the entire world's gamers.

So, do you prefer the "5 players in a house hold", or an entire world's gamers?

It is not a hard choice to make at all. It is clear and simple.

aldrizneriss2 · November 2017

@binkl1965

they made it clear by notice in -game.. per player..

--

let me get back to you binkl1965..

what does the game offer?

you don't seem to understand what the game offers.. yet your questioning the legality that we have 3 players in one household.. and your suggesting we get 3 ip?? are you the 1 paying for our internet connection??

you might be living in the USA!! so at the age of 18 your on your own..!! but here in the Philippines we value family.. and also we are happy peoples, who enjoy relatives company. SO BASICALLY YOUR HITTING OUR CUSTOMS..

don't give me the crap that I MIGHT BE USING AN ALT THAT MIGHT BE BANNED!! SO YOUR SUGGESTING YOUR WE GET 3 IP??

if your a loner KEEP IT TO YOURSELF.!! IF YOU DON'T HAVE FRIENDS KEEP IT TO YOURSELF! IF YOU WANT YOUR GAME KEEP IT TO YOURSELF!!

JUST SO YOU KNOW THE GAME WAS MADE FOR PLAYERS TO ENJOY THE WAY THEY WANT IT SO THEY OFFER ENDLESS THINGS TO DO!! SO IF YOU DONT WANT THAT THEN KEEP YOUR GAMING STYLE TO YOURSELF!!

JUST BECAUSE YOUR THE ONLY PLAYER ON YOUR IP.. DOES'NT MEAN WE SHOULD DO THE SAME!

so if you dont want it...!! pleaAAASSSSEEE LLEAVVE ALLREADDYY!!

aldrizneriss2 · November 2017

@JustToTalk

Facts:

ADVENTURE, MERCHANT, MARITIME

Its only reasonable we get to play atleast 2 toons per player.. 1 can be adv+maritime 1 can be full merchant. So we can be satisfied of what the game offers the players.. which is you will be able to do unlimited tasks which makes this game UNIQUE..

so you consider banning people that uses same IP fleeting 5! and for you its just and fair.. even call it minority of gamer's of the world!

where are you when GOD gave intellegence to MANKIND? were you at the TOILET?? or perhaps sitting under a tree waiting for a fruit to fall!..

lets say for example they banned a family like us because of screenshot due to whining people like you! do you still think you vs us is a major number for the gaming world? what makes you say they would earn more from people like you than 3 people of us?? pls keep reasoning REASONABLE!!

did you even learn how to count?

you should be the one asking yourself a question... what does the game want you to do?? ask yourself that.. because if you dont know atleast that! you dont have a SAY ON THIS ONE!

CrzyPsycoChick · November 2017

@JustToTalk

What you said was that if an innocent player happens to fleet someone who is running multis that you are PERFECTLY FINE with perma banning the entire fleet innocent one included because they are "expendable" just to see your dream of no alts? !?

Boy have you lost your got damn mind?! Lol.

If you ever fleet a shipbuilder for a mod and you come back the next day and see that you're permabanned for simply being in their fleet I don't want to hear even one complaint from you. In fact you should post a thank you letter in the forum to them since you're so " expendable ".

Listen guilty by association is hurting the game now as you can see now people are becoming more and more afraid to fleet(EVEN LEGALLY) out of fear of banning. Now I'm not sure if you're playing a very single or lonely game but a lot of us don't we fleet people everyday and need to. Fear to fleet is not fun and will cause people to quit, the MMO game is USELESS if you can't be social and fleet and no PAYING customers are NOT expendable ever. Not to mention if won't stop certain people from doing it people will ALWAYS cheat and as long as they do innocent people will fear fleeting at all since we cannot tell who is a multi and who is not. Even a fleet of 2 people or even one COULD be a multi just spread across multiple toons!

You may hate alts but you taking that to the utmost extremes if you feel we should ban innocent paying customers to discourage it.

Papaya needs to be thorough in their investigation of EVERY PLAYER in the fleet or give warnings first. The if you are seen with multis at all innocent or not you are banned is NOT working! Don't be lazy do a real investigation not just go off 1 screenshot.

Should be this...

1st report of multi on IP warning no investigation

2nd report of multi IP is monitored for a week to see the exact characters involved then ban 7 days

3rd same as above but 30 days to perm ban

aceman39 · November 2017

I think the people that report people for fleeting is just trying to kill the game as they hate that they lost everything. So their mindset is lets get people banned innocent or not so we scare vets and new players away from the game they say they love, but secretly want to ruin the game. And I know it is all over the forum how people hate the dev for what happened.

aldrizneriss2 · November 2017

@JustToTalk and all others like you..

Here's an INTERESTING FACT FOR ALL THOSE WHINERS OUT THERE...

Netmarble listened to you whiners before.. a lot of great players quit . what happened?? SERVER CLOSED!!!

OGP save the game .. infact saved also our investment but still they listened to you whiners.. What happened??? SERVER CLOSED

Papaya saved the game. reset the server. which is in good faith . they were generous enough to offer something for veterans who still want to play the game.. AND HERE YOU ARE AGAIN WANTING TO ENFORCE A RULE THAT WE ALL KNOW IS NOT THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM.. ONCE AGAIN YOUR KIND OF PEOPLE PRETENDING TO KNOW EVERYTHING WILL PROBABLY HAVE THE GAME SERVER CLOSED ONCE AGAIN!!!! CLAP CLAP EVERYBODY!!!

YOU KNOW WHAT PAPAYA SHOULD DO?? THEY SHOULD BAN THE LIKES OF YOU WHINERS.. THEN AND ONLY THEN .. ! MAYBE WE CAN PLAY THE GAME PEACEFULLY!!

patricksp · November 2017

"We have received a report and confirmed that you have repeatedly logged in to more than 3 accounts from the same IP/location. You may log in to a maximum of 3 accounts from the same location, regardless of player number. Our system is capable of detecting IP/location through proxy/VPN"

IP ADDRESS 86.97.230.169 - 3 PLAYER
IP ADDRESS 176.204.29.210 - 1-2 PLAYER

IP ADDRESS 86.97.230.169 - All 3 player suspended for 7 Days because they fleeting IP ADDRESS 176.204.29.210 for imperial quest or etc.If they're talking IP Location meaning only 3 player the same location/city?

We send ticket to clarify us on this issue but we don't get any reply until now so better you sail solo or maximum 3 player.

dabaddaba · November 2017

Is really just a screenshot of 5 people in a fleet enough to get them banned? Isn't someone checking if those accounts are all run by the same player or multiple people?

This has me concerned. While I agree that people abusing the system should be stopped, I'd rather let one multi fleet get by unpunished than see players following the rules be banned because of a witch hunt.

If I or one of my company members were to be banned because of this I doubt we'd keep playing, and I'm saying this as someone who has been here since netmarble.

If you really need to report someone please be sure they are actually a multi fleet before doing so.

aldrizneriss2 · December 2017

Notice by PAPAYA:

"Please DO NOT login more than 3 characters per player from the same IP/Household at the same time"

am i misunderstanding this?? cause it clearly states "3 chars per player" and it states "at the same time"

clearly this means just do not login more than 3 at the same time.. and that is per player.

this might be developers program fault as is in many games.. they put a system generated auto detect of logins per IP location. will auto suspend more than 3 account login per player in a certain time period.. for example more than 3 account logins in 1 minute that will trigger the auto suspension for 7 days for all 3 accounts.

ISSA112 · December 2017

I know veteran player who report every fleet of 5 that he comes across, regardles he even know that they are different players, IMO Papaya should deal with poeple like him too and investigate fleets first not just to ban based on screen shot.

ISSA
Gila Garuda Admiral

CrzyPsycoChick · December 2017

Thank you those BS bans should never had happened in the first place and A holes like the one you mentioned above who report all 5 fleets guilty or not are the reason why Papaya must take the utmost care not to just ban without THOROUGH investigation not just base it off another lying or vengeful players's screenshots. Do the work investigate!

KrisPBacon · December 2017

I have been looking through these messages.

Let me give you my opinions.

First of all... If you fleet with someone who is running 5 alts at the same time and they get banned, you won't because your account is not on their IP. If you do get banned, calmly send a support ticket to papaya asking them to lift the ban because you only use 1 or 2 accounts. But, if you are using 1 account as a shop in Seville or some other city and then 2 others accounts to actually play the game, then you deserved the ban, so don't cry about it.

Also, stop using caps when answering people. You have no reason to yell at others or be an imbecile.

I have many friends who play this game that have more then 3 people in their household who play the game. They can play their games with no problems. If 3 people want to play from the same household then they should be using 3 different computers which have 3 different IP addresses. You may have 1 connection/router but each computer that hooks up to it has a different IP address. So if you are claiming that everyone has the same IP in your house, then you are misinformed. If papaya checks the IP addresses and all the connections coming from your house are on the same IP, then you are multi-boxing and yes, you should stop trying to defend yourself because you might get banned.... Not only should you get banned for 7 days for multi-boxing, but you should be banned for good for lying about it.

Another thing that you should get banned for is the racist remarks. There are replies in this post which bash Americans when they shouldn't. Racism is the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races. So if you think that people in the Philippines are better then Americans because you are from the Philippines, then you are a racist and your account should be banned forever.

In general, papaya knows. They can tell who is using a proxy. The can tell who is trying to mask their IP. They know who is following the rules they have set in place, and they know who is breaking those rules. If you are breaking those rules, they will find out and you will get banned. It is not anyone else's fault but your own. So get off your high horse, and play by the rules or accept your punishment.

Can a forum moderator please lock this thread because it is getting out of hand. Thank You

CrzyPsycoChick · December 2017

Just a update 3 computers behind a router do have 3 separate private IP addresses Internally but not externally. The Internal address is primarily private IP addresses that can't go on the internet these include subnets 172.16.0.0/16, 10.0.0.0/8 and 192.168.1.0/24. When you NAT to the internet you use an outside global address like a 69.24.17.251 aka WAN IP address these can go across the Internet and everyone in the house will be seen on the internet by that single IP address not 3 separate private IPs that's how Papaya can tell if you are using multiple toons on 1 IP aka 3 clients all with the same WAN IP. Or clients with an extraordinary amount of WAN IPs recorded like 10 or more or using known VPN addresses this is indicative of VPN usage and tips them off

As far as contacting them if banned by mistake I don't know how Papaya works but on OGP when GMcoolprick banned me I couldn't access the forum, could not even log into my account on the web to file a ticket in addition to not being able to log into the game. Then to make it worse if you use another email or character other than the one you used to sign up with the GM ignores your ticket saying you aren't the email used to sign up with or increase your ban. If Papaya following this if you banned you can't ask for a repeal you pretty much screwed until ban wears off whether it was in error or not.

This is why I'm so passionate about this subject there is nothing worse than being punished for something you didn't do I been through it and I can tell you from personal experience on OGP they did NOT always do investigations they took the lazy way out screenshot and ban.

One day I really want to sit down with you in Seville so I can tell you the "darker" side of what REALLY happens :(

aldrizneriss2 · December 2017

@KrisPBacon

CAPPING is HIGHLIGHTING... its NOT YELLING UNLESS ITS FOLLOWED BY !exclamation points!.. don't be quick to judge and generalized.. we have freedom here as long as its not CURSING you have no rights of accusing persons here of YELLING AND BEING IMBECILE..

and pls read your post! your the one being IMBECILE.. not the one using CAPS..

Katanauwo · December 2017

Papaya should continue the ban. And let offenders pay real money to get out.

Multi x5 or more is the reason why inequality was so dramatic.

There might be a few mistaken bans, but most of them were true multis. People who respect the TOS would support the 3x rule by not forming fleets of more than 3 members. There are cases where people may get help from others for sb, adventure, production, but 3x is enough (one helping two others simultaneously). I do not believe there are genuine cases when one person has to help 4 other individuals constantly.

Some may say two friends group together to nanban. Why not just split the fleet then? That way the two can actually run 6 ship loads without confusing GMs for catching true multis.

And I played this games for 7 years and know plenty of liars who claim they are friends of two / three, or brothers sisters etc. enough bs. People just want to take advantage to stay ahead the grinding.

And guess why do they need to grind and make ake the risk? Because Papaya reset the server!

aldrizneriss2 · December 2017

@Katanauwo

Beating round the bush. you already know its not the solution to the problem .. NETMARBLE and OGP did that. what happened? server closed...

let me tell you about innocent people getting banned..

1. they will tell their 10 friends what happened

2. those 10 friends will tell their 10 friends what happend

3. people will lose faith in the game some will abuse the power to report those moving in fleets!

yet you're saying that few MISTAKEN BANS IS OK?? SURELY YOUR NOT THINKING STRAIGHT.

STOP PRETENDING TO BE THE VICTIM KATANA! FOR YOU CLEARLY DO NOT HAVE A BIT OF IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!..

Naver HAS BETTER IDEA.

if you want limit to your game.. keep it to yourself! quit the DRAMA.. Take your DRAMA TO OGP..

Katanauwo · December 2017

Your worry about 10 ppl telling 100 ppl about false ban has already happened. Once the reputation is broken, Papaya doesnt need to worry about it any longer, just do what they need to do to establish a fearsome environment.

Netmarble died due to their CEO selling gold and selling bugged forged cannons but refused to confiscate them. OGP died because of Coolwind. They didnt die because of banning multi. OGP’s hard stance on multi really worked. During the three year of their reigh i found very few multi x5, some but very few. Most people run multi x3, which was legal.

aldrizneriss2 · December 2017

@Katanauwo

hard stance on multi's only worked on your favor and your kind people. and they did not worked thats why they closed.

you even blame PAPAYA for WHAT OGP DID..

your clearly OUT OF YOUR MIND..

TAKE YOUR DRAMA TO OGP!!

lefox271 · December 2017

@aldrizneriss2

You may not be shouting mate, but the way you use 'emphasis' sure comes across as aggressive.

You may not intend it to, but that's how it seems.

KrisPBacon · December 2017

There is a person here that is exactly that, a forum troll.

Every time someone puts their opinion, he responds in the most obnoxious way.

Please Stop replying to this thread.

Let it fall to the bottom or be locked by a forum administrator.

Thank You.

Katanauwo · December 2017

Guilty until proven innocent may sound harsh, but it is very effective in getting rid of crime.

A game publisher looks at this problem from a macro view, in which a blanket ban of 5x is cheaper to implement and more effective to achieve the top priority goal of stopping illegal multi, than otherwise case by case ban.

There will be collateral damage, but it is acceptable because innocent people adapt by learning not to fleet for more than 3.

As much as how unfair it may seem to a persecuted individual, the ban is doing a greater good for the community, and therefore those individuals who happened to place themselves on the wrong side are acceptable sacrifice.

It is similar irl when a group of extremely dangerous terrorists hijacked an innocent child as meat shield, You reckon the military should just stop the strike so that those terrorists could hurt more people? For saving one life the community has to later lose a thousand.

If the military adopts a harsh standard by striking with or without meat shield, then terrorists wouldnt bother hijacking meat shields, and hence indirectly saving more people.

CrzyPsycoChick · December 2017

You heard him here first folks he said...

"There will be collateral damage, but it is acceptable because innocent people adapt by learning not to fleet for more than 3."

So now to solve the problem according to him no more 5 fleets even legally EVER wow what a "wonderful" and well thought out solution...besides we're all just "collateral damage" and insignificant. Smh

aceman39 · December 2017

So I guess we should not be a community and not help anyone because we are collateral damage and we are not worth anything so we all should be eliminated so he gets his wish and the game we all love dies and he gets his way and becomes happy

christinebp · December 2017

I got banned for 7 Days because we're fleet of 4 doing spice/nanban run with my relatives as we play this game since 2010 we never get suspended as we always follow the rules. We are not stupid to login more than 3 character per ip address at the same time.

It seems to us that Family with 2 ip address will not be allowed to fleet together so we're going to split us and we already informed even our company members not to fleet more than 3 to ensure we will not get screenshot from those whining waiting in SEA/EA.

We share on this fourm all our issue to improve the game.

Kind regards,

Tine
Philippines Company

5 Man multi fleets please Enforce this rule.

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