Restriction will be back, but now to 30min.

viennas · August 2018

That is what you can read by the log in screen. I think this is still very bad for adventure folks,...I assume even less overall adventures on the seas,...I decided I will spend less money from now on this game, till some other publisher comes along with more balancing approach, what about you?

jayjay40 · August 2018

Lets work towards an entirely safe environment - no pvp, no pve, the whole of UWO to be safe zones. Lets even hope they take away sharks, krakens, storms, broadside waves and anything un-safe that you can think of.

How would you like that? and would you empty your bank account on UWO then?

LOL.

viennas · August 2018

@jayjay40

no I won't spend real money to have peace from all kind of morons, or to be able to do adventure,... there gives better ways to spend money on,..folks as you can throw now more money to Papaya.

Radekp · August 2018

I don't like it. Papaya should do serious voting accross the board about any such important decisions and don't do any subjective decissions or not to be affected by several shouting like to be pirate adolescents. All players community should get enough time and be inform about intended important changes. and get unequivocal voting if players community like something or not and results consider for official result.

In most instances I find out that somebody decided about something important without asking us about our opinion. And it is very bad.

CrzyPsycoChick · August 2018

30 mins seem like a compromise. Seems like it will be enough time to escape if sunk or trib. and still short enough for pirates to be a threat so you cant sneak in a nanban run during immunity. I like solutions split down the middle not catering fully to either side imo. If the radicals still aren't satisfied with that then they you can GFYS.

Now that this trial is over time focus on the 5min no attack login rule so traders and BH can see pirates and get the thousands of fine tribs dropping out of North America removed its killing crafters of them and making it harder for pirates too...I think those changes will have the most effect more than farming.

Just glad this trial thing is finally over it was a real bonehead idea...

lefox271 · August 2018

30 minutes is a fair compromise.

Klandestine · August 2018

30 mins is fine by me. No complaints at all.

Crimsonbunny · August 2018

I dont get what all the crying was about even wile the event was going on i quested out of sea cal and so on as adv i seen so few pirates that it was lolable .Not once did i get farmed

And be for any one says u must have had a good ship

nope i sailed till 52 adv ina gradsambuk the school ship non modded hell i even did spice runs with it . I think there are some that wont stop qqing till they are able to warp from seville to ea orhave all pirates players and npcs killed of /taken out of the game .Its so stupid any more how some people are in this game.

JamesHart2 · August 2018

Well, we are at half the time that we use to be. It is a half measure BUT it is usable for an adventurer to get out of the farming zone. My issue was never about being pirated as it was about being farmed. Those who would pirate and then move on to another player are not affected by this rule one way or another, so the only ones who wanted to have minimal time are those who want to farm others. perhaps I'll come back half the time. Certainly have no reason to pay papaya more than half the rl cash I use to, That is now going to another game where crafting is still valuable.

So at least I have to say thank you to papaya for at least half listening to the people who play the game. please don't half it again.

Culvern · August 2018

Seems like a fine amount of time for each side.

@jayjay40 I think you are on to something!
I think the traders would love a automated game where they can nanban automatically and safely without danger or even any playing involved. Perhaps just use an afk bot for their whole game?!

SailorPapaya · August 2018

Due to my experience, 20 mins is enough to get away from pirates from repeatedly farming, or at least able to get to the nearby port.

This calculation is based on a maximum of 2 hits. If a player is sailing with a slow ship and the pirate ship is faster than him even at top speed, then 20 mins + 20 mins = 40 mins is enough for that person to land on the nearest port. A person can usually be hit twice, depend how much cash you are carrying and how high your aides level is. This only refer to one pirate, worse scenarios need to be taken that may involve more than one pirates then that poor player maximum is going to be hit 4x before he reached the nearest port, and the cash on his body should be near to its end if one has been hit 4x, with fine tributes.

(If I am not mistaken, one fine tributes cost 5m on the market last time I know)

So that is a lot of money lost and a good rewards given to the pirates. This calculate leave almost no extra space for the traders because the possible damage is already been measured to the highest level they could afford to endure.

So my own personal bottom line is 20 mins, Papaya give 10 mins more so there is nothing more to complain about.

I do hope the pirate players are happy about this. After all, the non pirate players already tolerate almost all whatever that favors to them.

Still the same I mentioned, for those who spent less than the pirates they really have no reasons to bargain a lot. I mean if we could already bargain from 5 mins to 30 mins is already a gift given, don't try to push it anymore.

After all, we must remember Papaya's goal is to run the business, and business is supposed to earn profit. They are not just aiming to earn enough just to cover up the maintenance, if that is so, they would be doing a charity, not a business.

My firm stand on this rule may have offended some players, but that is because the matter is too serious until it is not possible to be ignored. There aren't any other choice left to be chosen from.

From December until now, there is already enough damage done to the server. I hope for all of us who do love uwo for real, let's try and brainstorm ideas together to Papaya to improve the game.

You must remember, one person's strength is very insignificant, but when all people brainstorm together, I am sure we could find something that could be done to attract more players to join in. After all, uwo is a very unique game.

I know that very well because when Papaya reset the server, I was one of them that didn't rejoin back until a few months later. During this period, I keep trying to find some games that could "look like uwo", "smell like uwo", or "feel like playing uwo", but I could not find any of them. Not even one game that is near to uwo at all. So if I don't want to play uwo there is no game to be able to replace it at all.

This game is very unique, it has potential but at the same time, you also need to be aware that this is an very old game, 2004.

Believe it.

There are gamer who like to play trading games.

There are gamer who like to play adventure games.

There are gamer who like to grind.

There are gamer who like to sail on the sea.

There are gamer who has a dying love to any open-world/sand box game. This is one of the strongest feature about uwo.

It is a sailing game on the wide sea, with all the real world cities and ports, and it is open-world/sand box.

About the pirate parts, I believe Papaya is more expert in this area so there is no need to point it out.

So when you want to introduce your game, what's so fun about trading in uwo, you must have a page or a video to emphasize it. Youtube is free. All it needs is some works.
What's so fun about adventuring?

How many stuffs players can choose to grind in uwo? List out every of them. More complex, more varieties, the better.

Uwo cannot depend on the existing old players. Many of the old players in uwo doesn't play uwo all months, all years. Some stop for a few months and they rejoin back. You need to find in new bloods to the game.

That is the only way to do it. There is no other choices left. You can keep update new interesting patches, new ships, new fundamentals, but if you do not advertise to the world what a game uwo is, there is no meaning to try all the changes to the server, item plunderings... 24h protections.. so on, these are ALL POINTLESS.

You need to find in new bloods. That's the only way. That's the only direction you should focus.

SailorPapaya · August 2018

I miss out to mention one last important factor.

It is not that I do not realize all the pirate players want to get back to the old days when uwo allows pirates to farm non stop.

But like I said. The time is not now.

The focus must be getting more players into the game. Once the population rises to a safe level, Papaya could just, for example, test the acceptance of this rule, by using an event.

Let's say, an event will be organised, from what date to what date, pirates will be able to farm non stop.

But the pre-conditions is, the population must be high enough to do that.

So just let's say, maybe I am being too optimism, that one day uwo would be able to reach 500 players and above. Real individual players, not including alts.

By that day, I can almost assure, even if you change the rule into non stop farming, there won't be much of a problem. If the game is heated enough, populated enough, anything is okay as long as, again, it is not too extreme.

So what can be focus is, my view is, now let's just try to understand the game, prepare proper introductions of the game, and then advertise the game.

We need more players. That's the only cure to the root of the problem.

miyamoto · August 2018

HA HA HA

purplepirate · August 2018

@Radkep Papaya should do serious voting accross the board about any such important decisions

so you are saying that someone who's spent 0 dollars over the last 10 months has equal say as someone who's spent 1000's over that time period?

LyonesseJoseph · August 2018

Tbh, 30 minutes should be satisfy everyone without any issues ,but it's better than PVP trial, though. Cheer up. I hope some players will come back soon since they should be opk with 30 mins for PVP now.

CrzyPsycoChick · August 2018

What does spending money have to do with anything? That's high level corruption that someone who spends the most money should dictate how we should all play like we didn't help build this game what you're suggesting that's an Oligarchy. I'm a free player not because I don't have money to spend I got it but I did it because I wanted to prove even free players can makrle good money with time and effort. All those years teaching newbies, running events , writing guides , promoting the game coming up with new ideas running a company and many many many others who did the same thing and then some allllllllll that means ZERO AND should be ignored because he spent 1000's.... What is that???

The community makes uwo we all put in work not just some handful of elitists Oligarchs.

Rhend78 · August 2018

CPC, that's a stretch.

Games will always attempt to cater to the base that keeps them in business. Crowfall isn't going to come out and turn into a PvE game, because it would alienate their customer base. WoW isn't going to go to 100% PvP anywhere/everywhere, because it would alienate the very, very large percentage of their players who really don't enjoy pvp.

It's smart to cater to whatever base keeps you in business.

With that said, I don't think the financial disparity is as great as has been stated here. While Maritimers may spend more on average per person, when you figure in that maritimers are a minority group, I'm sure it all damn near evens out.

Which is why I think PP is trying to find a middle ground that most on both sides are comfortable with.

purplepirate · August 2018

I'm not talking about Naver. He's not the only one who spends alot, many others do as well. Sometimes even a community can be bias. If everyone decides that ALL items should be available in game instead of having to buy anything. guess what? The server closes because the host makes no more money to support...

CrzyPsycoChick · August 2018

@Purplepirate

I know you didn't mean Naver you were speaking generally so was I. I get your point about money I totally get that and agree but its a double edged sword...server can't survive without money but the server can't survive without players either. If a change suggested by a whale gets implemented and causes 50% of the population to quit or stop playing then I think following the whale is a problem got to find a balance ya know ?

@Rhend

I agree with you that Money talks BS walks but at the same time it doesn't mean it's right or that its the best practice... PP must try to keep as many players as possible yes they want that big spender I mean who wouldn't but like I said above if catering to the big spender causes your player base to leave the big spender will leave the game because there's nobody to play with or contribute.

Can you imagine if PP deleted all accounts of free players and left only the paying "people that matter " here the game would close in 2 months flat. We need a balance you want your cash but you want your population too. Heck ill even go as far to say that its BETTER to have a lot of players than just a few big spenders if this game had hundreds of thousands it could survive on ad revenue alone. Players provide content and content equals money.

200k players > 1000 big spenders

viennas · August 2018

I think that here prevails a belief, that you can debate such stuff here in the forum. No you can't, since only tiny fraction of population is represented here. And if you do debate such stuff and come to any kind of conclusions and force some rules on everyone,... you can do that yes, but you can't force anyone to play the game or to spend money on the game or to install the game. So if the majority of players won't agree with some restriction rules,... you will have more ghost seas. So easy is it. You can write here entire encyclopedia, it won't change anything. Considering that it was a lot of ghost seas already by 24h protection, let alone by 1h, I can't imagine 30 minutes will do much better,....and everyone who agree with such rules,..cool have fun spending your money on blue flags,...

purplepirate · August 2018

i agree that you can't cater to just a few people (unless they are literally spending millions on this server lol) but at the same time you can't put your full trust in the future of your business in the hands of someone who's 'along for a free ride'. More non paying customers leave after a short time in this game than ones that actually spend (even a little money), that's one reason why they don't spend, they are only here for short time to try out the game and move on to other games. The company i'm in and have been involved with since back on OGP takes in alot of these new players who play for the first time. The HUGE learning curve in this game and high cost of bazzar items is what discourages most people from staying permanently, which is why they only stick around for a couple months of play. We have such a huge turnover of players because we're constantly booting inactive (new) players that haven't come back after only playing a short time. You can't leave the decisions of your long term business in the hands of these people who by all accounts will be gone by the following month.

purplepirate · August 2018

@purplepirate you can't put your full trust in the future of your business in the hands of someone who's 'along for a free ride'

viennas you are proof of this statement. jayjay40 sais it best to describe you...

Lets work towards an entirely safe environment - no pvp, no pve, the
whole of UWO to be safe zones. Lets even hope they take away sharks,
krakens, storms, broadside waves and anything un-safe that you can think
of.

How would you like that? and would you empty your bank account on UWO then?

ASaltedJim · August 2018

This is at least a 20 plus year old discussion that already has a tried and proven answer to the problem that can be viewed. UWO players should look to the method that successfully worked.

Over 20 years ago, Ultima Online opened for business and the servers flooded with people faster than Origin could handle the load. Griefers ran amuck using thief characters in cities harassing PvErs and if you stepped outside of a city you were ganked by higher level opponents, many running in war bands.

When UO was the only Multi User Graphical Dungeon online players had no choice but to play or not play. Then Everquest came along and offered safety to PvErs and approximately 1/3rd of UOs population fled. A year later Asheron's Call opened and another 1/3rd of UOs population fled.

One of the lead designers from Ultima Online admitted that they were losing 8 PvErs for every PvPer they were coddling.

Ultima Online quickly stopped the mass ex9oduses by creating a mirrored server called Felucia where players could go and experience higher rewards for taking the greater risk of possibly being Player Killed.PvPers hated it because the previous few years of easy kills of PvErs was over. The mirrored shard/server did stop the mass exodus though. Ultima Online is still online and still has players, many with multiple account all playing a 20 year old game 2D top down view that you can't even walk onto mountains or go into the water. Most of the long term players are SOCIALIZERS who inhabit games for long term game play.

UWO could do the same thing. Have the current server and put portals to the mystical PvP world where higher rewards can be gained for taking the risk of going there.

There is no question this model of balance works. It has been tried and proven and worked for the long term with the game still going after 20 years. People pay subscription fees to play it still to this day.

purplepirate · August 2018

@ASaltedJim the problem with that is that there's just not enough people to make 2 severs viable. We hardly have enough people on one server let alone 2, sorry it's just to late now for that idea to work...

Also, characters can't traverse between servers in UWO. If that was the case then we could take our characters to any of the Asian servers as well and there wouldn't have been a character wipe back at the beginning of Maris.

Rhend78 · August 2018

ASaltedJim, what you are ignoring in your anecdote, is that UO was beat in a LOT of ways by those newer games. They didn't lose players because those other games were a bit safer (I played UO and AC, and there was a LOT of PvP in AC).

UO suffered from a graphics problem. It didn't hold a candle to EQ1 or AC. Plus, back then, PvP wasn't really that big. Lets be honest here, the majority of online players 20+ years ago, were carebears. Hell, I was, it took a lot of time PvPing in AC before I got a real taste for it, and eventually went on to Shadowbane, Darkfall and such.

I'm just saying, the industry was a LOT different then, and blaming the mass exodus of players from UO on PvPrs, is, well, silly. I'm sure it's a partial truth, but, it's no where near the full picture.

CrzyPsycoChick · August 2018

I think his story was more about the dangers of caudling to a minority or big spenders and the damage and dangers that can come from it.

It's simply just not a good idea to do that from a business perspective. While there is heavy turnover there are many long time players as well in fact I'll go on to say the number of long time players who are not whales DWARFS the whales. And while they not spend 1000 a month let's say they drop 10 or 20 a month and if MANY do that that eclipses the whales or even if a free player if they keep the butts in the seats they make up for it. I'll give an example on ogp I needed to max my aide and I offered 2x the normal rate of ducats for the aide voyager records. This prompted people to start buying it for me I spent about 17 billion just to send my aide to royal navy they weren't going to buy it but by offering more it MADE them buy it now how much do you think all that costed in USD from a FREE player. See it doesnt matter where the money comes from...as long as it comes right?

Never underestimate the potential of a body. I would have ZERO problems if PP Put an ad banner at the top of the window and you can pay to remove it id be totally fine with that or....offer deals in exchange for papaya coins buy 70 bucks in coins get a week of blue ribbon home delivered meals free. People would do that or buy coins get half off at Gamestop or shoes or a free perfume or 3 months free of spotify etc.... There SO MUCH OTHER WAYS to milk money that you dont need whales just need bodies. I'll always say bodies > whales...

Rhend78 · August 2018

The problem I have with the assessment of anyone being coddled, is the fact, that no one is really being coddled right now. Maritimers can't farm players, and traders can't run constant Nanban's all day in safety.

For quite a few years, the only players who were coddled, were the Traders. So, I just find it hard to read any story, or statements, by anyone right now, who would think maritimers are now being coddled. Right now, it's about the fairest it's EVER been.

ASaltedJim · August 2018

@purplepirate your characters could traverse between mirrored server shards i.e. Mystical Lands of Pirates and current UO world with Papya Play adding the mirrored server world and some portals around the globe.

@Rhend78 I didn't blame the mass exodus of players from UO to EQ and AC on PvPers. The lead developer of UO at the time blamed it on the dev team for coddling PvPers and allowing the PvPers to drive off the PvErs when safer games came along for PvErs to play.

No. Not ignoring how a newer game is often better than an older game. The topic isn't about how many people leave an older game to play a newer game though.

UO Lead Developer said they were losing Eight PvErs to every One PvPers they coddled back at that time. I'll take the lead developers word for it since he probably knows the game he is lead developer of better than most.

And PvP was HUGE in UO in the beginning. It was the sole focus outside of role playing, if you were on a role play server. They stuffed more players on the server shards than they had monsters available to kill. Seriously. The devs actually set a spawn point for an air elemental in my tent so I could have something to battle each day. We'd roam the country side hunting red name players and never see any monsters for hours.

If you were in the city, thieves harassed you to no end stealing stuff from your pack. Wander out of the city and bands of red names would gank you. Your toon couldn't fight anything in town, not even a dog or cat. To raise skills you had to leave a guard protected city. Go to the newbie dungeon outside of Britain and whack, PKer bands killed you. Even going to Minoc Mines there were locations on the path from the mine to the forges where PKers could kill you and often did.

That's just a couple of the numerous examples from outside of every city that had rampant PvP taking place which gave PvErs no safe zones to really level their characters in. In the start of UO there were no quests, 5 or so dungeons, scattered overland monsters in short supply so the huge focus of UO for several years back then was PvP and until EQ and AC came along, UO devs failed to address the situation.

Pirates in UWO are coddled. In real life pirates that got caught didn't continue their pirating. They swung from the gallows until dead.

Pirates also knew that destroying the traders they attacked would thin down their revenue stream of goods so hitting the same vessels over and over just made the merchant go out of business. Pirates in real life protected their territory from other pirates so the other pirates didn't wipe out the traders that they preyed upon. Kill off the host you are feeding on and you don't feed very long.

ASaltedJim · August 2018

Also in real life, wealthy traders would often hire military escorts to protect their shipments which is not an option for wealthy traders in UWO. How about adding the option for the Big Bounty Hunting ships in various locations to be able to be hired by traders as escorts?

CrzyPsycoChick · August 2018

What you just said is the equivalent of this...

White people kept black people as slaves for 400 years

Then the slaves get freed

Then black people then in turn start keeping white people as slaves and then they give the justification well I dont see how we're being caudled to now when whites were being caudled to for so long...

It's still slavery! Lol.

The length of the caudling of traders or even the fact that it happened is no reason to want it on traders now. It was wrong when it happened to traders and it's STILL wrong when it happened to maritime. Wrong is Wrong and I dont think wanting traders to suffer for a change is a legitimate reason to bring back farming especially when you all seen it had a negative impact on the game and it comes off as being needlessly vindictive and wanting what's best as a whole, gotta let the plunder nerf go man. Two wrongs don't make a right.

But to your point I dont think they caudled maritime I feel they caudled the biggest spender who just so HAPPENED TO BE a Maritime. If Naver was a trader and did the same exact tactics to abolish piracy I bet We'd be having a no plunder trial right now...

We need player spending out of game policy its corrupt and wrong and will only cause more problems.

CrzyPsycoChick · August 2018

and NOT wanting what's best as a whole*

Restriction will be back, but now to 30min.

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