Weapon, Map & Gameplay Balance & F2P Model (Balance and Solutions Explained + Ideas)

Killingtime

@Mrterr0r

Yeah I agree that there are some important problems like team stacking and spawn camping too to be discussed about, the third post in this thread is going to be also about those problems.

But you saying that weapon balance or map balance wouldn't help at all? You know that's bs, don't be ridiculous. I have already seen some very nice effects when playing in Korean WR thanks to those updates.

Instead of saying stupid senseless stuff like that, feel free to list the problems and explain about the problems in BG, it helps regarding my third post about gameplay/mechanics balance.


And like @SirJux said, its easier to balance weapons/maps out first.

And that we have the level limits, we just need to fix wr so we can have more players enjoying the game, so when you make level limit rooms they will actually be filled, also I even had suggestion regarding level limit rooms before, it was about making level limit rooms gain more exp/dinar, that should help a lot too.

And yeah there are things like balancing out points gained when playing against small lv players, or for example. my old suggestion was about getting less points if you are fighting against team that has less players and the team with less players gets more points, Japan WR already had this actually.

Mrterr0r

You cannot balance the game if the main part ( the teams ) are unbalanced each and every game. 

It really is this simple. 

Playing other games and then playing warrock really highlights just how bad the problem is. Take a look at the screens above we are talking a + or - of 5 for the stats  << this wont effect anything in game. Over all these weapon changes mean nothing because the weapons that really need to be adjusted the most are not even listed.

You can increase the SSG`s damage or the amount of ammo a m24 has but no one is going to use them because of the overpowered nature of the aw50 and other 1 hit bs weapons. @Skylove So you have a permanent mk1-de great, how nice. Bet your be the first to complain here if they reduce its overall stats and turn it from being a hack gun and bring it more inline with other weapons. And lets be honest its like playing vs a hacker when coming up against the mk1 as its impossible to counter it. 

Overall the weapons in game are not the issue. In most cases its the amount there used per team. Why does one team have to / need to have 16 aw50s which all 1 shot kill and ruin the game play. 

Balance the teams first as this is the problem or set class limits reducing the amount any one weapon can be deployed in game.   

A team of 16

2 snipers

3 medics 

5 assaults 

3 heavys

3 engineers

As an example. first come first served.  Start at the base of the issue regarding balance and that is the teams. 

Mrterr0r

@Killingtime

I bet the community is a lot different to this version? I talk from what i see here in EU not another version. I already pointed out on the nx forum how the map updates are going to cause more issues then solve once there implemented.

I said in my last post a + or - 5 on a stat is not going to balance the game up. It will just cause a shift to the more powerful weapon and were be back to square one where the most powerful weapons are first choice for everyone. 

So really nothing will change. But if they want to make improvements then they need to address the teams and how games are started. 

There is no reason a 32 player room should be starting 1v1 or 2v1 is not right. Starting a game with clan members on both sides only for one of them to leave and rejoin, again is just wrong. There needs to be a player limit before a game can start 8v8 needs 4v4 / 10v10 needs 5v5 / 16 vs 16 needs 8v8 

I cannot remember the last time i started a 32 player game with full teams. This is when the game is most fun and enjoyable. 

Naaah lets start 2v1  let me take every base and you rejoin and we can spawn point kill and flame over f2 chat about how good we are and how epic are kd is  

 

Killingtime

@mrterr0r

Ofcourse because the Korean community is different because its just people from 1 country, but people still abuse a lot things in Korean WR and often don't care about uneven teams or going 100-0 with Apache etc.

Why you talk about +5 or -5 in a stats? Maybe it might be enough to balance some weapons but mostly not and I never said that, if you read my Sniper Balance talk/suggestion in the middle of the thread at page1, you will understand what I mean much better. It's a long thread but please read all my posts before talking more about weapon balance.

And also with the weapon balance people would naturally play more classes, now its just mostly sniper and its purely because of AW50F, because its so good and some vehicles being op/hard to destroy with heavy. (md500 for example.)

Also this comment of yours:
"Overall the weapons in game are not the issue. In most cases its the
amount there used per team. Why does one team have to / need to have 16
aw50f which all 1 shot kill and ruin the game play. "

So first you say weapons are not issues, then you say aw50f ruins the game play, dude come on. You have gone crazy.

So once again please read my Sniper balance post, its highlighted with red in the middle of the thread on page 1, snipers are big part of the balance in BG especially, so sniper balance done right can make BG better overall, its important because of the high distances.

Also I agree with starting the game like 4v4 instead of 1v1/2, would help a lot and make more sense.

SirJux

I agree with the minimum players required to start the game being 4+ players.

For mrterr0r its not actually that team are unbalanced or people spawnkill. Its more of a not so smart gameplay he uses( and he is not the only one). Has 2 tanks in his main bases = goes medic. Doesnt make sense really. I die, crab heavy, destroy 2+1 tanks and voilaa base cleaned. ( game we played together today)

Its hard to break out of spawnkilling solo - yes, but come on. I see you way too much going stubbornly medic. when heavy is all you need really.

Same goes playing vs AW. if you know that snipers are out in bulk, expect to be seen at all times. Dont run in straight lines, go zig-zag, stop then move, go prone, speedroll, stop and so on...... bretty obvious, yet so many fail to understand logics behind that.

BG is not cqc where you crab your weps and run like a madman at enemy. BG takes tactics to play, each situation has its own solution, You sadly, most cases use wrong tactics.

Mrterr0r

I see you dont understand your role and fail to grasp how a team should work. 

linkinxero

Part of the teamstacking is resolved if we can get the weapons balanced. Giving F2P a fighting chance against helis, or even preventing enemies from jumping into your vehicles that spawn in main base, would really help reduce the advantage stacking has.

Fundament

You all forgot gun called bizon, it should be hardcorely buffed.

Killingtime

@Fundament Well the point is to balance ALL weapons, so don't need to mention specific weapons really, but I might actually do similar balance explanation/suggestion for assault and medic weapons that I did for snipers (that can be found from the first page a bit below middle of the thread, its highlighted with red text) so keep an eye on this thread and you can see how it could be balanced 8-)

And for everyone, I finally posted the third part of this thread explaining about Map & Mechanics balance issues and suggestions/explanations with even some videos.

It's the third post in this thread, please read it and tell me if you think something is missing etc. if you have anything to say about it.

pipinal10

AW50F, vss and MK1S_DE should be nerf ASAP, I hope Papaya listen to us to really improve this game.

Killingtime

Some after thoughts for pure F2P etc:

Alternately if Papaya don't want to try to pure F2P system (which I really think would be more appealing for wider range of audience and overall better for the games reputation), making sp ups and 5th slot purchasable with dinar and doing the "F2P-mode" where you could only use weapons and items purchasable with dinar would work quite well too.

SP Ups needs to be for dinar too because you can't dis-equip them and they make a big difference and talking about dis-equipping, you can't dis-equip fast reload which is really annoying for competitive play such as ESL or the possible F2P-mode, so it should be possible to dis-equip it or make it work only for A.I mode.

And 5th slot for dinar too because having F2p-mode in BG with only 1-4th slot wouldn't be good, vehicles would be too powerful.

blyzzardx

Some of my thoughts as a QCQ player regarding class balance:
In almost every match the majority decides to play the Medic because they can heal themselves and stay alive for longer or clutch out rounds. Nothing wrong with that but they should be more encouraged to play other classes such as Engeneer or Heavy (which only seem to be useful in BG anyway?). Also some players rather have you die than run to you and heal you up because there's a chance they get killed or don't make the last kill. When Nexon brought the achievement system to us, there's a badge or title for healing teammates but in my opinion not enough! I haven't thought of a way to reward Medics for actually healing teammates and not themseves yet though, (maybe certain roles classes should fulfill and they get additional boost at the end of the game depending on how well they performed in their role). It's a teamgame after all and teamplay and tactics should give you the advantage. I'm totally fine with Assaults as they are right now but while Medics can heal themselves Assaults get to play with the stronger cash shop weapons. Like literally the only reason you'd like to play Assault is because of the Famas, XM8 or a skin version of the M4. Grenades are redundant because funny enough Medics can also equip a 5th slot Grenade. Almost the same goes with Sniper because other weapons are so deadly, your timeframe as a Sniper to make a shot is so small, you're dead if it's not a one-shot-kill. Thus the AW50F despite being probably the most op sniper in every gamemode is a must-have (The VSS on the other hand is too op for QCQ, nerf that shit). When I read in the OP that in the KR version of War Rock M14- and Flashmines are visible I got the feeling it could be a comeback for the Engeneer to QCQ. They are hated for deploying mines but when you can actually see them your at your own fault for walking into them. I also like that it forces the enemy team to play with an Adrenaline stick instead of their beloved HP or Stamina stick as it adds more depth to strategy and adapting to the enemy classes and playstyle. I personally like playing games competitive and when I see publishers empowering rush and solo plays through cash shop sales it makes me kind of sad.

My two cents for tonight

Killingtime

@blyzzardx
Yeah the class balance, the problem is even bigger in competitive play, like 80% of the time people use the medic because of healing and because the weapon for medic is better than any assault weapon available in competitive play like esl, combine this with invertleaning and its just not fun.

And yeah if they make the mines visible like in kwr it would be much more fair and fun and yeah heavy troopers are not that suitable for cqc, except maybe for deathmatch with minigun, also engineer with c4 in deathmatch is good if not overpowered lol.

So best way to have more variety is to balance things out, this way we will naturally have more variety.

Also for everyone: CQC "Death Cam" has finally been removed!

So that's one problem out of the way, only 9999 more to go!

goodpinky2017

Hello  people..... and my old friend Mrt:)  one  things for sure something needs to be done about these overpowered weapons that's been bought into the game. They may be legal but they're certainly not fair considering their price based:(  so some can afford them,others can't.

Another reason why I think they should be banned is for the sake of the game the more people that have these weapons the more(LAGG)  is introduced to the game you know what I'm talking about how many times have you been playing when these weapons are used and the amount of the lagg in the game just suddenly increases tenfold and you end up bouncing around like a beach ball:(  in those circumstances you can't even hit  a barn door from 10 feet away it's frustrating...

URLBadman

I appreciate how much effort was put into this thread but I honestly don't think Papaya will ever act on it and I have my reasons why -

1. WarRock can't compete with today's FPS games. The game's more than 10 years old, people are more hyped about new games, it's graphic while unique in a way is garbage compared to other games. Now before someone mentions how X game was released 20 years ago and is still popular - WarRock was never nearly as popular as those games to have it going for it.

2. It doesn't get any new players besides dedicated players who once played in the past and invited their friends or hackers who had their main banned and when it does they have terrible experience because the game is highly unbalanced, highly laggy, they're being vote kicked every match, it's full of whales and they're being exploited by high level players who use them to boost their K/D ratio.

I tried to introduce 2 of my friends to the game yesterday, mainly because it has an FFA and nice game modes to play in it (We're mostly OW players so we don't have those). Also a new publisher to give it a try. I tried to play public with them twice. One friend was vote kicked twice because she's new to the game so she had bad score. The other friend was doing better because he's familiar with FPS, however he had no chance against 3 famas ginas (or sarahs) with lags who's rushing to his base to kill him every time. You can see how disheartening it can be for new players so a lot of them just leave.

3. No pro scene, no advertising, no streaming, no YouTube videos about recent patches. These might seem not important to you but I can guarantee you these are really viable for the game's relevance.

4. No feedback from Papaya regards to popular issues yet unless there was some thread that I misses. You could say it means nothing, but I can say that at least to me, the silence is a bit worrying if they're ever gonna act on anything.

Now unless Papaya magically wants to recover and save this game from it's death - I doubt that we'll be seeing any chances soon. It's just doesn't seem to be profitable for them to do so. It's much easier, much safer to have the game remain as it is and add new sales to it just like Nexon did for what, 5 years?

I welcome them or anyone else to prove me wrong, I guess. The recent changes were nice, but I doubt we're gonna get more than that. I have my own feedback regarding of the game which I'd love to give. But right now it feels pretty pointless.

linkinxero

"They are hated for deploying mines but when you can actually see them
your at your own fault for walking into them. I also like that it forces
the enemy team to play with an Adrenaline stick instead of their
beloved HP or Stamina stick as it adds more depth to strategy and
adapting to the enemy classes and playstyle."

And that's why I advocate for something like Adrenaline being available F2P. M14s are good - they give a message about you stepping on them, so now the person who deployed them knows exactly where you are - and even if you use Adrenaline to undo the stamina drop, everyone knows.

Killingtime

Pumping an important thread, its a long thread but if you guys want to make WR great again, you should read it.

Also agree with @URLBadman though I disagree with point 1, WR could still compete with other fps games out there if it gets fixed and improved, we have ridiculous number of game modes, including battle group and zombies, no other game has this many modes, there are even more modes and maps coming, with some fixes and improvements WR could still be way more popular game than it is now.

Just imagine this game without any of the problems we currently have, most things are possible to fix like lag problems, pay2win/weapon balance, improved game balance/maps, matchmaking, improved clan system etc. They are already doing bunch of this stuff, so we'll see..

Also would be nice if admins can read this and other big threads like Free2play Open Topic Discussions and the other F2p thread:
[HGM]Skateboard [HGM]Lavish @WarRockTeam

Killingtime

B u M p

Please read and comment, otherwise I have to send my squad to your house and it wont be pretty.

melo94

@Killingtime sorry but i haven't understand ur "bump" with that image xD 

Killingtime

Since this thread, there has been some things done that I suggested, such as the following:

-MK1S_DE Nerfed

-AW50F Nerfed

-Character Bonus stats nerfed

I made a lot effor to make this thread (first 3 posts) so please give it a read so you too can better understand some of the problems in this game.

Killingtime

Since this thread, there has been some things done that I suggested, such as the following:

-MK1S_DE Nerfed

-AW50F Nerfed

-Character Bonus stats nerfed

I
made a lot effor to make this thread (first 3 posts) so please give it a
read so you too can better understand some of the problems in this
game.

Recommented this as there was a bug that I couldn't see my text. Also forum is laggy atm.

Killingtime

Since this thread, there has been some things done that I suggested, such as the following:

-MK1S_DE Nerfed

-AW50F Nerfed

-Character Bonus stats nerfed

I
made a lot effor to make this thread (first 3 posts) so please give it a
read so you too can better understand some of the problems in this
game.

Posting this comment for the third time, forum makes my text invinsible..

Killingtime

Now in 2020, even more things that I suggested have been done such as:

-CQC Map balancing (Velruf and I think Bloc and Khali as well)

-BG Map balancing

-BG Vehicle balancing

Now just waiting for more things to get fixed/improved.

PAPAYAnexon2

Killingtime  balance your brain. 

With fk balance weapons, skins nobody play warrock.