Free2Play open topic dicussions

olvag02 · February 2017

Make the game monthly payment 25€ like the most popular game on earth and give to us the option to make all easy!!

marco97 · February 2017

People are asking to make dshop items tradable because they dont want to spend their money on the game and You say "Make the game monthly payment 25$", plus the post is about free to play game.

Drunkenkick · February 2017

@[DK]Gismo You done with this thread or just being the silent type?

Alii031 · February 2017

I agree with @marco97 the whole subject is on how to make this game free2play. Most games you pay monthly, wouldn't have all these bugs, and I wouldn't feel confident that even if they made this game a monthly paid game, you would see less bugs, being as the condition it is in now. The dshop isn't going anywhere, so only way seems to be "free2play" is just play and avoid the dshop, no matter how much you can benefit from it. I know many players who don't use the dshop and play for fun.

The way the companys have changed the game has only put pressure on the players to need to be the "best" so we have become too dependent on dshop, for Pve/Pk. Making it a pay monthly game isn't going to make it any better, dshop is the root of the problem and it needs to be solved in the right way. In 2moons days, dshop was a cute extra feature where if you "wanted" to buy something fun, but it wasn't really in demand to "play". So if everyone could start posting actual ideas on how to solve the dshop problem, it would be really helpful.

Drunkenkick · February 2017

@Alii031 The monthly membership price is just a few guys opinions, I highly doubt itll get taken seriously as theyll lose a lot of player base.
Dshop is only an issue when those in-demand items to be the best are binded. Meaning only those who wanna throw away money can be the 'best'.
And back in 2moons days, dshop players still had a massive advantage as they could buy 6k HP pots and the christmas tree buffs.

If you actually read the thread there's plenty of thoughts here. I'd also like to highlight while youre calling for more ideas, you failed to provide one yourself.

Alii031 · February 2017

@Drunkenkick I had posted earlier what I thought but I was adding in to what I noticed what was being pressed on the paying monthly idea. Obviously if I had another idea I would of added it and my post wasn't given to put an idea, only to point out why paying monthly wouldn't be.

[DK]Gismo · February 2017

Thanks everyone for your posts and thoughts already.

I've been asked by upper management to put together a email to report the ideas listed here so we can discuss them. Pros and cons discussions on posted ideas would be great to continue on.

I will probably start my email on Thursday, so please continue.

:)

Razeeeer · February 2017

Well here are my ideas:

1. Make D-shop items tradable (the only binded items should be the event-only ones and some of the ones that you farm, ie. squama, mdn, mwr, perp, halo ring, etc)

2. Besides the daily attendance regular gifts, add some tokens, or coins (like the thanksgiving ones) to be collectible from karin (or other npc of your choice) that the user can trade for whatever he likes, the more coins the better the rewards, for example, you log in for 30 days, you collect 30 coins which you can trade for items like seeds/dragonsouls/dils, etc, 60 days for higher rewards, also add some limited-time op items, or some permanent +9 /18x armor part, plain etc,120 days maybe for some dkcoins, ilipia +9 armor part, mc2, 175+10 ulti/luna wep,gd wep box, red dk permanent wings, 180 days for gd +10, or some exclusive op items only obtainable this way(costume/wings etc). I know this might sound stupid at first, because some may abuse it using alts, but if you put a high-lvl requirement for it(190+) and considering you need to log in for 4~6 months daily to get a single top tier item, i don't think its exagerated, and it will increase the activity(both the 190+ players because they will try to get those items, and the 190- players because they will try to get that level and gain access to this event) on the server, which is in everyone's favor( papaya's because more active users means more $, us because more active users, means easier trades, finding parties faster, etc, and everyone is happy), and it will also lower the people's wish to purchase money or items illegally, what will hopefully lead towards eradicating those annoying spammers.

3. It takes to damn long to obtain high-end items via farming, so either lower the requirements to craft items such as psd/mdn/mwr, either add fixed rewards when you finish those dungeons that will help craft those items faster( for example you could add more dragon souls for completing MDQ, should be at least 100 instead of 25, or make each boss from the 4 dungeons required to complete MDQ drop between 3~6 boxes each containing a random amount of ds, 10~50 each, same when you defeat rubisin in Honeymoon island, but just 1~2 boxes, also each boss in HHM should drop a seed box containing 10~100 seeds each, or make a daily quest rewarding 100 seeds for beating Ilipia in HHM)

4. Events like pvp fight night should be done on a regular basis, at least 1 even like that every 3 months, but with a little twist, that instead of rewarding those that have the best items and buffs it will reward those that are the most skilled with their class. Keep the level requirement, level brackets, and class only pvp, but make it so that everyone fights on equal terms, so the conditions are as following: players are only allowed to use 130 +0 set and weapon, white, no gems(because those are the highest lvl items you can purchase straight from an npc),hp/mana pots only (no other pots of sorts, ie fish, frog etc), and regular skills, everything else is forbidden, so no meister skills/no accessories(earrings,rings,necklaces,belt,bracelets)/no wings/no costume/ no emblem/ no buff of sorts/no pets. Keep the same rules, best 2 out of 3 fights, but instead of posting screenshots, players must record the whole fight, then upload it on the website within 24 hours, or they will be disqualified regardless of the result, and they must show in their video, at the beginning of each fight, their gear, and their costume/emblem slot. Remove the participating reward, and only reward the first 3 in each class, in each lvl bracket with same/similar prizes as you did last time.

5.Start advertising the game again, it will benefit and make everyone happy.

In short, the game is boring as it is now, it lacks proper events, where everyone has an equal chance of winning prizes that are actually good or worth something, it's very expensive,farming top-tier items takes way to long, longer than my post, and it's a total pain, plus it lacks proper advertising.

If you manage to fix any of the issues I told you about, not only f2p players will be happy, but I'm absolutely sure everyone will be happy.

ForumPoker · February 2017

@Razeeeer

2. The idea itself isn't bad, but I see a problem with the afk farmers. For 190+ ppl only won't prevent that. Instead I would suggest a simple quest to get the coin, like: enter a (solo) dungeon which will be on the players lv and finish it. The dungeon should be easy but monster dmg tolerance should be ignored, this way everyone got a chance.

3. Increasing the drop of needed ingredients or amount of quest rewards would be fine, but 100 Dragon Souls would kill it. Here again I would like to make another suggestion: a random box containing Dragon Souls only, starting with 20 Dragon Souls up to max 100. On top of that spawn an npc at the end of each of the dungeons which gives one small random box containing 1-5 Dragon Souls (5 pieces having like 1% chance to not kill the quest itself).

4. The idea of equal conditions is good, however your example isn't. 130 +0 gear will prevent nothing even if Meisters aren't allowed. Also most ppl can't run programs such as fraps.
No suggestion here since mine would need an extra server for such events.

Just my opinion.

BonnieClyde · February 2017

Make the game monthly payment 25€ like the most popular game on earth and give to us the option to make all easy!!

The most fair way ever!!!!

Drunkenkick · February 2017

@BonnieClyde The topic of this thread is making it a fair FREE TO PLAY. Adding a monthly subscription makes it pay2play.

Think I'll run down the list of my suggestions with pro's and cons for em. Pro's in Red, Cons in purple.

Create a auction house/agency that allows you to place your items inside at the price you wish to sell. This will free up server space, remove the need to have ardeca littered with AFK shops. Items that don't show up in agency will be harder to come by, i.e 9% gems, blue/red DK guardian wings, dragon/ultimate.
All D-shop items should be tradable*. We bought the item, we should be able to chose what we do with it. This will allow players who don't have the money spare to gain access to dshop exclusives i.e wukong costume. It could also boost dshop sales as people will be able to sell dshop items in game, boosting what most players consider a dead in-game market.
Don't think any con's from this suggestion, feel free to add as you see fit.
Show server drop rate/any exp boost next to ping. Players will know if there's additional exp/drop rate without needing to go through the notes which is mixed in with blackshot updates/patch notes as well as knowing the drop rate. Papaya will have to show the playerbase the actual drop rate, which is extremely low, forcing us to buy items to boost this terribly low rate.
Keep 'event items' permantly obtainable in game. Gold dragon weapons, Prime annos novus, Halloween ring. These items require seed of dreams to be upgraded, so a boost in dshop sales for seeds or ib2 tickets to acquire the vast amount needed. New players will have a chance at being able to farm the high end dngs where armor only acts as a way of boosting dmg rather than providing defense against in-coming monster dmg. Having end game weapons permanently available will provide new players the ability to compete with 'old' players who was around for these events. Papaya won't be able to milk players via random boxes during these events in terms of obtaining gold dragon weapon boxes.
*Have everything farmable. I.E Wukong costume exchange vouchers. Youll need lets say 1k. You're required to do every party instances, kill X amount of mobs on various maps = 1 voucher. This will allow players to obtain the item(s) required for end-game PVP or DKSQ without the need for spending money. [some what moot point if dshop items are tradable] Players won't purchase DKC.
Bring Shadow Shield back into doomed maze - has the same drops as it was when it was 105. Literally of no use to anyone 154. Certain events, such as football/basketball events require instance completion to gain the reward from the event NPCs. There's also a relatively high player base for 149 DKSQ, those rewards would help players in there. The first actual party instance dng in game for new players is 150, which is shocking imo. It could revive an otherwise useless and dead instance.
ADVERTISE THIS GAME. Possibly one of the most important thing in this list. Higher player base = potential for more DKC purchases. The cost of advertising won't necessarily be balanced out by the income of new players.
Take on In-Game GMs. These GMs won't have the same powers as actual GMs but these players should have a direct line to GMs/DEVs. So when any bugs arise these players can be informed and the information passed on in a more efficient manner. They'll be around to help new players with in-game information such as locations of instances, quest mobs. Certain drops. To help players in general with instance farming i.e sacred claw - a suprising amount of people still don't know how to do the dream powder boss via NPC running, Karons fire pot - without 80% Mob tolerence, at least 1 Azure Knight its impossible to farm. [Not that im complaining I personally love how hard this dng is, I feel/felt a sense of achievement when I could take on the bosses myself] How to create a fair selection process.
If you sell drop rate boosting items make sure they work. [Self-explanatory]
Have a more fair drop rate. The drop rate on some items is close to 1%. For a large player base this is fine, for our current its god-awful.
Make leveling harder again. This will mean new players will get a better feel for their character skills, effects and combinations, not to mention a sense of accomplishment once they reach high levels. The current playerbase average lvl is 180, so new players could be disheartened.
Bring back the log-out option. Extremely helpful for collecting reward events.

If any of you reading this has further insight into additional pro's or cons Ive left out. @ me and I'll update the post.

MateaB1 · February 2017

This was supposed to be a discussion about free2play concept and whether we should have shop-exclusive items (pay2win) or should everything be obtainable at least in 2 different ways (buying & farming), so players can invest their time if not money... We were supposed to find a balance between publishers interest (more income with less expense) and general players interest (more fun with more content). It is a difficult task, but we can all agree that enlarging player base helps both sides. What is essential is that every player must be able to calculate his/hers game options, so we need absolute transparency in the game. No one likes to be dealt a raw deal and everyone likes to set some goals, being daily (log-in, pk for 1h or click some event), weekly (farm an ingredient, upgrade something, brand, trade) or long term (farm OP item, build a guild society, find friends). So, when we are buying something we need to know exactly what it gives and what the chances are, as well as we need to know what are our prospects if we indulge ourselves to farming or we try to forge something.

So, lets get back to the topic and leave content suggestions and bug corrections to other section/thread.

northeastazu · February 2017

I've played this game since 2Moons and have been in guilds
but now I, like some others only want to play solo PVE and grind mobs, so my
comments are from that perspective. (feel free to critique them as I may have
made glaring errors J)

There has to be a balance. If you focus purely on guilds,
PVP or party dungeons you will be missing out on players who like to solo. To
address this, make similar items available in both solo and party dungeons.
Just make it harder for solo, this will still encourage parties due to the
easier drops but would also give solo players a chance to get all items for
things like Perps.

Remove ‘sitting character’ personal shops and introduce an
Agency which remains open when you log out (like Aion). If you also disconnect
AFK characters after a certain time it will remove spammers and AFKers (Fishing
could be an exception as long as you remove the option to speak/shout while in
fishing mode)

A sustainable Free to Play model is the only choice in my
opinion, and is the main attraction for me as it gives the flexibility to play
when you want without ongoing cost. Too many existing players would just not
pay given the wait for new content and bugs existing in the current game. This
means the D Shop is an important feature to the company. To make it fairer on
the players make D Shop items tradeable thereby available to all. You could
also make dil available in the D Shop which would get rid of dil buyers.

Provide basic items (Ring, necklace, costume) and allow a
player to create a defined set of stats of their preference using a new crafting
system (attack, Def, Res, Crit, Str, Dex etc up to a maximum cap). This will
give all players the ability to create personalised items. Crafting items could
be made available in D Shop, drops and quest rewards. I would love that because
no one item has everything you want.

Make all items stackable (buffs, argates etc.) as most
players have full stashes.

Razeeeer · February 2017

@ForumPoker well some of my ideas are rough around the edges because I wrote them on the run. I've looked over your suggestions, and yes, I agree on point 2., it makes much more sense that what I said, also you are right on point 3. about the 100 ds as a reward for completing mdq, that's exaggerated, however they could either double that, so 50, or as you said, npc at the end of each dungeon which rewards all the participants with a random box containing 1~5 ds.

On point 4. I know what you mean by having another server, that's what I initially wanted to suggest, basically a new server, which would be open only during the pvp event, and where everyone has max lvl, max skills, and the exact same items, all you have to do on that server is to pick the class you wanna play with. That would be the best case scenario, however I doubt that will ever happen.

So I tried to come with an idea that allows pvp on equal terms(or at least as equal as it can get) on the server that we have, but I don't understand why you said my example isn't good. I mean sure, its true some will be higher level than others, and will have higher dksq ranking, so more stat and skill points, but I doubt it will cause a huge gap between players. The event will be announced a few weeks before it starts, so it will give players the time to increase both their lvl and dksq rank to have better chances at winning, or ranking in top3 in the event.

Besides the difference in skill/stat points, which should be minimal, I removed all factors that would give some players a huge advantage over the others, or at least I think I did. If there are other factors that I didn't take into account, let me now.

Now what you said about the fact that some players can't run recording programs while running dekaron, well, let's say we switch that rule, and have gm's supervise the pvps while they take place, and I have nothing against that, but I'm absolutely sure there will be lots of players suspecting, and accusing gms for siding with this or that player, saying that they allowed him/her to use this or that item. Also doing a screenshot at the beginning/end of battle simply won't do. So if you, the staff, or anyone else has a better idea, so that all players can enjoy a pvp event done this way, that would be great, but as far as I see it, recording would be the only way to prove that everyone plays by the rules

blackball2 · February 2017

Good day everyone

Iv'e playing this game since action 3,4 so i can say for myself this : dekaron grandpa :D

So 2 cents of my opinion :

Nothing will ever be changed in this game or as u might like it better , dekaron will continue to be pay2win no matter what DEVs and GMs do to it.

R.I.P. Dekaron 2007( approx.) -- 2012.

2012- 2017 - where the fek i am , what im playing ? O:o

P,S. you all izi

Sincerely, worst Dragon Knight in history of game

Dipfoofie

olvag01 · February 2017

We try to make dekaron on free2play model????
Sorry but this make me laugh hardly!@!

jamiesjames · February 2017

Good Day GM @[DK]Gismo,

It's good to know that you guys are interested in discussing about this free2play idea and I'm sure that most of the players here who joined the discussion were able to give & provide you a wide variety of ideas applicable for it as we can NOT ignore the FACT that the game is already DEAD.

I've been playing the game since Action 3,4.....had played 2moons and Dekaron SEA (and other Dekaron versions/private servers) before and the current situation of the game fails in comparison to 2moons and Dekaron SEA simply because players before are more active playing the "gameplay" of the game while compare to now... - it's more of pay2play. More DSHOP more power - killing the market, growth of dill sellers/buyers and ultimately destroying the balance of the game play where even the in-game vacuum/skills hackers lost their interest in playing the game hahaha.

Kidding asside, Maps all over the game are more like a dead, deserted ghost towns for noobs/newbies who will eventually quit playing after realizing that they cannot compete with other players who rely on non-tradable DSHOP items.

@ForumPoker, @MateaB1, @heildestru, @Drunkenkick and @MondiVG did point out some interesting facts and ideas and we all sure do hope that all this will NOT go to waste....that a change will come to Dekaron as soon as possible.

We all love the game, the brutality and social gameplay - that is why we are still playing it.

Point is, after all this, we all hope that you can make us feel that the game is alive. Papaya Management, GMs and moderator must become more active and involved in and for the game.

Dr. Strange

northeastazu · February 2017

(olvag01) can I just politely clarify in case there is any confusion.. The game IS free2play. You can play it free by registering, creating a character and play for nothing.

Apologies if I have picked the meaning of your post up wrong but you appear to be getting this thread confused with pay2win which means a player needs to spend money in game to get the best equipment?

I am not disagreeing there are currently elements of this in the game but this thread is asking for ideas to get the best for players while creating a sustainable free2play model. The fact that it is free to play means the company needs to create enough revenue in order to be able to continue to make the game available to play for free.

This inevitably means the main source of revenue will come from the in game players themselves unless they create some sort of external crowdfunding. It's just about getting the best balance for both players and the company, otherwise it could become a subscription game which I doubt would work.

[DK]Gismo · February 2017

Thank you all for your discussions and for most all of you for producing productive posts.

I have plenty of things to review again to produce the report that was asked for.

Again, Thank you for your support.

merdara · February 2017

@[DK]Gismo

Im late to the topic party, and lots of good suggestions here. What ever happens or gets discussed. I think everyone here would appreciate updates.

Example(you dont have to give full details but the more details will be better)

Friday 17 Feb Meeting with management

-Notes of meeting? went well, things are going to change etc

-More details will be avaialbe on friday 24 Feb

Friday 24 Feb Management makes short term and long term decisions

-Short term plan is.... and will start on X Date

-Long term plan is (or will be made available on Y Date)

X Date -Short term plan starts

X-Y Date - Update on long term plan

Y Date - Long Term plan implimented

BloodMoonCry · February 2017

Here are some thoughts on the F2P tag.
Most if not all F2P games become P2W it's just a matter of time.
Dekaron however is extremely P2W more so than other games.
To retrofit this game back to lesser P2W aspects here are a couple of ideas.

#1. No more random boxes please *100000^10000
This is the worst cash grab games can ever have.
It turns the cash shop into gambling and a fail slot machine.
If a player supports the game buy purchasing cash then they should not leave empty handed by useless junk that they didn't even want and/or need.
Random boxes encourage mass amounts of cash spam to be that "lucky" player that gets the rarest item on the list.
If the player is going to have the option to buy their way to end game items then don't make them based on a slot machine with a jackpot lottery.

#2. There should be a way to obtain cash shop items without buying them.
This can be done a couple of ways.
A. Make all cash items tradeable.
B. Make all cash items obtainable in game.
These two methods should go hand in hand so that yes if you want to get an item and don't have the time or feel like farming for it you can buy it for dil or cash.
Or if you do have the time to farm for it you can do x,y,z to get it in game.

#3. Costumes/Wings in the cash shop should not be 30 times better than accessible ones in game.
Though i think this is going to be mostly fixed with act 19 and being able to extract properties from costumes, that still brings wings into question.

#4. Gold keys, Blue gems should not be so RNG based and could possibly be eliminated.
See #1 about random boxes because these are the same thing.

That's all I've got for now.
Maybe I will return to Dekaron some day, until then take care.

arninator123 · March 2017

Make a second server where everyone and everyone starts from scratch when he wants all the old patterns of 2moons (A3-A9). Everyone misses the good old times where one still needed weeks for level 50 to be able to put on another armor part. I am convinced if a 'Comeback' rumre that many will return to 2moons / dekaron!

kelyje2nx · March 2017

Just seeing this thread actually be made just made me wanna come back to dekaron. ^_^

PappyPlay · March 2017

There are other games where essentially it is Free, and not just F2P, unless you want to get "fancy". A buddy of mine plays one where he payed $50 upfront (one time) and now plays with equal advantage to other players. There are purchasable items, but those are mostly cosmetic (costume or weapon appearances for example) or game simplifying perks (like teletransport for example). I forget the name exactly, but I think it's Diablo 3 or Guild Wars 3. So this could be one option.

But aside from making the game more free to play, to attract more "regular players", the developers need to work on game stability and login issues. Who wants to even play a game, Free, F2P or whatever, that one can rarely log into, or where one keeps getting disconnected?

I haven't been able to consistently login since Papaya took over. The GMs keep responding to my ticket(s) saying they "are aware of the problem and working as quickly as possible to resolve it". It's almost a year now since Papaya took over. How much longer will they take? And how many players have they lost because of this ongoing problem?

Aside from that, many respondents have made excellent suggestions regarding the F2P game. I agree in general with the concept of having D-Shop items available for those who prefer not to grind for goodies. I also agree that these same items should be available by grinding, or players should also be able to purchase (with dil) from those who bought the items from D-Shop with cash.

In the past (with Nexon) there were problems with duped items, but I'm certain this can be controlled if the Papaya developers want to. By making these sorts of changes, the game would be more open to everyone, and provide a more equally competitive battleground for all.

olvag01 · March 2017

Last p2w event has already failed

Concmuri · March 2017

All from d-shop tradable.
Farmables emblems.
Solo DG to farm rings like Perpetus.
PT DG to exp/set items.

Drunkenkick · March 2017

Any updates that u can speak on yet @[DK]Gismo?

[DK]Gismo · March 2017

All focus is on the actions. When I discussed this with the team, they said we would go through it more after.

iknowyou · March 2017

[DK]Gismo

They (papaya) don't care so what it matters

shebal360 · April 2017

make it all tradable like pet eggs,costumes dshop items etc.

except for special items like squama,perp and items that needed to forge it., sealed spell,perm wedding ring,mdn etc.

bring back the anno novus upgrade.

2v2 colleseum.

dungeon that drops GD weapon box.

OMG! how do you guys endure this,this are the main events suggestions telling you over and over again.

lame pvp event by chance not by choice unfair,unbalance,think more creative that all players who wanted to participate in.

Free2Play open topic dicussions

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