Free2Play open topic dicussions

[DK]Gismo

Good Day everyone,

As I stated in another post, I would gladly make a post to start an open discussion around our games Free2Play model. How do you make it a win win for both the players and supporting the game? Discuss opinions, ideas, and recommendations that could be made. As a player, what does free to play mean to you? Is it possible to make everyone happy? And many more questions that might come up.

Least see now this goes. As a reminder open but respectful.

Lets get started!

h2obrr

1) Exchange ingame currency with other players for DKC

2) Or tradeable items

I have nothing against who spent thousands in DShop, the only thing that annoys me is, you want for example a 30% talis, then you have to buy many random boxes to get it. It's not pay to win, it's more like gambling, where ofc who loses is the player.

Give the players the option to buy for a fair and fixed price the things and trade with other players for dills.

So who dont want to spent a penny  can work hard ingame and buy things, while who wants to sit and use their wallet can too.

StevenSegnal

Well my dear Gismo. Again you become the most active [GM]. That's good as I said before community is the kay.

So we talk about this game so muny times. I made several threads that I ask for more or all items in Dshop to be tradable. In my opinion this will make the game more free to play and to that much pay to win.

Now theres a lot of players which is better than other just becous the invest more money in game not becous are better skilled than others. So in my opinion if we have more tradable DShop stuff we will have more fair PVP/PK System and more fair Tournaments. Im sure theres a lot of things that ppl will want to happened to become our game better. Something like better support less  bugs more fun events something to made Dekaron more popular so to have some newcomers or back players. We need bigger population in this game fair chance to all can get a DShop stuff and better support. (also better drop rate for the main rings like squama perpetuus etc.) ;)

Well I wonna see other players ideas and I hope that you will listen to them.

MateaB1

@[DK]Gismo

Free2Play sustainability was thoroughly discussed on Nexon forum and nothing changed since then.

In short: from top 10 items, maximum 2 should be exclusively from D-shop (costume/wings atm), maximum 2 from random secondary source (platinum/gold boxes, lottery,...) and all the rest should be farmable (very hard or semi-hard). D-shop offers to cut down farming is OK (lot of lazy rich people), but it should be balanced with event offers.

P.S. This is a copy of my post in another thread about the same topic.

ForumPoker

I agree with @MateaB1 here.

A few D-Shop exclusive items are ok, but it should not be just about them. The D-Shop should not give that huge advantages, it should just buy time instead. The balance between time and money is important.

Make D-Shop items tradeable or open an extra part of D-Shop which sells tradeable items for non refundable cash for example. This would open the way for non paying players as well.

I'm currently playing another game which perfectly figured out the balance between paying and not paying players (if you want to know the name in order to check the system or want more details pm me).

Just one example: normal weapons are binded over there, the more important modifications for them aren't. The trade currency is cash-currency.

@StevenSegnal

Soon my young padawan...soon.

The adjustments for Dragonic items have been made already (1.5 years ago on korean server) and should be a part of the next big update.

Check the 2 notes here: http://forum.papayaplay.com/index.php?p=/discussion/574/guide-dragonic-items

solahb

Free 2 play for me is paying 50$ per month and remove d shop  

mmsatine

Everything has been said in this tread.. Make dshop items tradeable and farmable (not all but atleast few) and this would solve our major problem.Give us opportunity to choose between boring grinding or spending money. I'm sure you'l still earn some good money and playerbase will be more happier.

MondiVG

(1) Free2Play for me means make account free log on play try out things... Do you like what you see? If yes and you like to continue your journey you mast pay for premium items this will support the community and make profit. 

(2) Is that possible to make everyone happy ? I don't think so...however To make most of the players happy papaya should low a bit the prices of the items and make some of the premium items tradable to support those player who can't afford or simple friends making a gift to a friend.

Activities in the game is 20% from 100% this make players unhappy and staying in the same place like Crespo arguing with each other saying things to each other keep reporting each other for nothing...

(3) Now this is the things people use to do before all those are Dead...

121+ Karon transport ship 18 Players 3 PT's Dead...

131+ Karon transport ship 18 Players 3 PT's Dead...

140+ Cherubim 18 Players 3 PT's Dead...

DF 28 Players 4 PT's who go in Dead...

Colosseum 15 players vs all Dead, 5vs5 Dead, 2vs2 Dead...

ICE Castle 28 players 4 PT's who go in Dead..

All the maps in the server all Dead... nothing important to do...

DG's all Dead... nothing drop nothing need it only for low Lvls may be useful...

Bring back all those if you do lets say I am Lvl 195+ not worth for me to go there so MAKE ME... bring something on all those which will make all players motivated to go there that's it who cares about A19 or A20 that how all win all happy...

BonnieClyde

+1 to all.....
I agree u can make the game not free.
Paydable 25€ per month like the most popular game on earth, then give us the options to make all thinks easy and add monthly/daily gift for all player.
Holy shit it's only pk pvp game for just have fun p2p and not NASAs game!
Nowadays between paid and unpaid players huge unbalance!

Tomori

Couldn't agree more than @ForumPoker and @MateaB1 and instead of repeating what the people above said i'll like to express my opinion by saying that the D-shop, not only it's killing the farm/grinding but it's also way too expensive for a game like Dekaron. 

I'd rather pay 10-20$ per month to play a game which doesn't force me to pay the incredibly huge amount of 40$ (!!) to buy something (referring to costumes) i dislike but it will keep my character up to date with the game.

khobra2

+1 to mondi that comment kinda saying evrything..

heildestru

okay i had to logg on and reply when i saw this topic xd, gratz for my atention,

here is what i believe is the main problem with ya P2W // Income issue-

1; ADVERTISMENT!!!

i remember back when 2moons/dekaron was new and was trending on certain mmo sites, i remember seing some adds about dekaron a long while ago, and that brings in new players,

if 10 players start play this game, maby 2-4x of those will spend money, and maby 1-2x out of those 4 will spend money in a long run if they enjoy the game.

here is the problem,

the game does *NOT* get allot new players, every time i am in denebe ( my favurit spot ) and i see new players i often ask them; how did you find this game ?,

they allways tell me ( a friend reccomended it / or i played it loong ago )

never any new people that find it by themselfs.

--

2; WAY TO EXPENSIVE!!

Most people that are new that i have interacted with makes it to level 160-175 and then they decide to quit  and often the reasson is that its way to damn expensive and time consuming to reatch end game.

Farming 10000x souns for Master dragon necklesses/mwr/ farming perp, thise actions take an eternity to get without D-shop,

and most other games do not have that long farming periods,

For instance world of warcraft; takes 1-2 months to level up, and 1 month to gear up and then you can have fun,

in dekaron you need 1-2 years to get the required accesories and tons of money to make it at 170+,

--

3; conclusion,

So put youreself in the newbies boots.

you find this game 'god knows how' 

you spend 2-4 months getting level 160-180

you spend 100 Euros to get a costume and some inventory space,

you have managed to get a 150 +10 weapon, and a 170 +9 set,

you enter dksq and get one shoot,

you try to farm horror/honneymoon/Red hole and you get one shoot by mobs cause you lack enough mob ress

you try to find friends; you fail, not many play this game, its empty, maby you are from USA and play at EU night time and nobody even exists at that time..

you google why everyone are so op,

you relize they have sick player ressistance and monster ressistance,

you relize it takes years to get the pk ress rings, and the monster ress items are only obitanable by cash or farming years worth of seed of dreams,

you feel sad cause you lost 100 euros and wasted ya time with this empty game.

--

thise are the problems with the game,

Advertise,

make Dshop cheaper and tradable for all players,

Un-lock binded items, EVERYTHING you have spent money for should be tradable

Make items more avalible, like gold dragon, make novus and halloween ring allways farmable so everyone got a chance to get it, 

higher the drop rate so people feel rewarded when farming,

i swear if i spend 3 houers farming red hole, or horror HM, i get 1 drop at most ( WITH DROP RATE BOOST ITEMS ) and that i can sell for 300m....

NOT WORTH MY TIME IMO*

nobody wants to spam the same duegone over and over for houers without a proper reward.

.

now everything comes down to the player base. 

its so P2W cause not enough people play and spend money,

the host's have to lower the drop rate so you spend money and time on exp boost items and have to buy new tickets to enter the dg ( witch is the dumbest thing ever ) What game other then dekaron do you have to spend money on to be able to do missions ????? NONE* thats what.

You are greedy and foolish, and its a mirracle the game still exist, we should all be thankfull to the hand few 100-150 people that are adicted to this game, and donates tons and tons of money every month to keep the game alive. and what do those people get? Banned/hacked/harassed and 0% support,

Zonble

So when I first saw this post I was really excited.  All of these thoughts started rushing through my head about how to make the Free2Play model of this game better.  Not going to lie I could proly write a 20+ page paper about how to improve the model of this game. 

  

But then I realized that I don't actually believe that anything is going to change.

All I'm going to say is the following:

ALL END GAME GEAR AND ACCESSORIES MUST BE OBTAINABLE WITHOUT SPENDING REAL MONEY

yes this includes costumes

I don't care how many current players are willing fork out money for this stuff.  I'm interested in the growth of this game.  Most new players are not going to play a Free 2 play game that required you to buy a $40 costume in order to be viable.  That's just a simple fact.

There is so much more to be said on this topic but with the current state of game I have no motivation to put together a proper post.

I sincerely hope that changes will be made.  But do I believe there will be any changes?

Not even for a second.

SojuPayToLose

Anyone play MU free2play app game yet lol? Ppl spend alot more money than any pc game. At least make everything farmable for both zombie ingame farming and dshopper for ppl dont have alot game time. Anyways at least make some profit to keep this good dekaron alive for everyone.

Alii031

Wow, where to begin, everyone has made so many good suggestions so far...I do want to thank papaya for starting this post, it means your willing to listen and interested in hearing the voices of the players.

I have played since 2moons and obtaining items to be strong was always a struggle but it has become even more difficult as time has passed and companys have changed. I do agree 100% the items in dshop should be tradeable. As someone said it helps those ingame who do not want to spend real money but able to obtain items from the dshop. You (papaya) would still be gaining, because the ones who are able to afford to pay for dshop to sell ingame, will most likely buy in bulk to make dil. I cant remember which company started the tradeable dshop items but it really helped a lot. It made those desperate for dil purchase from dshop rather then buy dil. This game ingeneral is a free2play, there are items/costumes you can get free ingame but only If you try to farm constantly, which if the drop rate was improved, it would help those who prefer not to use real money and still have something to gain for their time.

1. Make items in dshop tradeable to help the economy ingame and for those who don't want to spend real money to obtain the items

2. Back in the day you relied on your stats/skills, now its all about having the best armor,rings,belt, ect. If the game was less focused on those, players wouldn't feel so pressured to have to "spend, spend, and spend more" to be the best.

3. Improve the drop rate so players who don't want to spend real money can farm items easier to sell.

 

I think the main cause is figuring out this dshop situation and that will level things out more. thank you!

MateaB1

@heildestru

..."you relize they have sick player ressistance and monster ressistance,

you relize it takes years to get the pk ress rings, and the monster ress items are only obitanable by cash or farming years worth of seed of dreams"...

You are partly right, mainly because half od the game is bugged. If 35%, 50% or 100% drop rate from personal talismans would actually be applied to all maps and dungeons, regardless of the server drop rate (should be added!), then you would gear up with dedicated farming in less than 3 months. Atm, when they proclaim 200% server drop rate, you can notice that in only few dungeons and maps, the most important ones being excluded. And 100% server drop rate gets cancelled with personal talismans drop rate! Huge mess and fukk-up. I suggested long time ago a solution: show actual (real-in-time) drop rate for every char on screen, next to the ping. Same applies with actual exp. Sample:

@Zonble

..."ALL END GAME GEAR AND ACCESSORIES MUST BE OBTAINABLE WITHOUT SPENDING REAL MONEY

yes this includes costumes"...

I could agree with that if it is forgeable with small chance of success (like with Asian costume). We need wings/costumes machine, where you could blend 2 items into 1 with combined options or similar system. Or just introduce branding for wings/costumes, but with different options than for gear. End gear must not depend on events, it must be obtainable in game all the time. Events should award some secondary items (soul stones, seeds of dreams, red diamonds, magic crystals, etc.)

@Alii031

..."1. Make items in dshop tradeable to help the economy ingame and for those who don't want to spend real money to obtain the items"...

I could agree with that or just make more (much more) items packable with sealing powder and lower the price for packing...

Stryder1

Kill a few birds with one stone:

First if you made EVERYTHING in-game trade-able you could make money and help limit or remove the dil sellers. If everything in the game was non-binding then many players would not mind spending a few dollars on dshop items to be able to make dil. The dil sellers would not have any ppl to sell to and would move on to another game to harass and annoy with all the spam msgs.In the process papaya would have a few extra dollars in their pockets as well as freeing up time spent banning players or dil sellers.

Second up the drop rate. I could spend 8-10 hrs per day that I don't have playing the game to be able to get the crystals or items needed to either get weapons or upgrade things only to have them fail wasting my time and deterring me from continuing my quests.

Thirdly or lastly, make the agency so I don't have to be constantly logged in to sell items. I do not like having to constantly worry if I disconn or if I'm still in the game to sell my items. This also wastes electricity, and bandwidth on my end and papayas (lagging the server) to have to be always logged to sell. One of the things that I liked about Aion online was that they have a non-logged player agency to sell items.

In a nut shell lets recap:
Make everything trade-able
Increase the drop rates
Non-logged player agency to sell items

I think if some of these suggestions and other players suggestions were implemented in the game then Dekaron would last alot longer than the outlook it currently has. Sadly to say unless something is drastically done then I don't see Dekaron surviving another year at best.

nanohana

5 years too late to think about free2play.

I doubt anyone would still want to try out this game because riding a dead horse wouldn't make any sense.

With all your over-powered dshop shit you completely destroyed the game. Even if you somehow manage to gear up nowadays you're still only at 20-30% of what a full-fledged player's like. As a motivated and active free2play user you would expect that you could reach at least 70-80%.

But the worst part of the game is the gambling factor. There should always be 2 ways to reach a goal, by luck or by skill/farming and the latter part is almost non-existent.

Not to mention that there are almost only retarded players left. Log in for 30 mins and go to crespo and you know what i mean. Everyone with more than 3 brain cells left the game already.

And on another note the lots of hackers, dil-buyers and scammers which you have done almost nothing about in the past years.

Even if you somehow manage to solve all the mentioned problems i doubt i or any other player that left for good would come back to play this old game.

mmsatine

There is alot of things to improve. Even if new players appear in game its easy to lvl up but really hard to play. We don't have any proper informations about how to get some items and what to do (not to mention about years to get it without real money...) I've played since gametribe. Now when i come back few months ago. I created new char, bought runes,ib tickets and leveled up to 175 before week ends...I know that actually is low level comapre to server status but something is fk up. As a really new player i would lose all content. It was really cool to make dfs, cherubin,expedition, crespo abyss, and lots of daily events and bosses now all its dead (my main reason to skip it..) Now i hate that huge difference between easy leveling a deadly farming...;(

marco97

Well, could be a nice start if you introduce new rings with monster damage tolerance or at least make old ones (annos novus, halloween ring tier) still upgradable since someone could miss the event and now cant farm hard dg like mitera or new dgs in a19.
You should introduce wings with monster damage tolerance farmable for people who dont want to buy from dshop or at least make dshop ones not binded; you already made a farmable costume with monster tolerance (polar bear) why dont you make also wings?
Would be nice to have a farmable emblem too, many people missed the emblem A event and they still have meister emblem which really suck; actually you can get good emblems only from boxes and for people who dont want to spend a lot of money is impossible to get.
This would be a nice, after you could make items from d shop not binded so people who want them can farm and buy them with dills instead of real money.
Thats all from my point of view, i hope you will make some improvements as soon as possible.
Thank you.

alexxddj

log in with different account with same launcher.

when you log out can log other account with same client.

is really boring charge a new client to log other new account.

Triarii

To start off, everything should be made farmable and not dshop obtainable etc emblems in platinum box which required keys from dshop.

Everything that's put in dshop should be obtainable in some manner including Premium costumes.

Pretty much to fix this would be to to make all items in dshop not binded so can be sold to other players in server. As for premium costumes such as Halloween costume maybe we could trade in Halloween crystals which are still dropping etc.

Also on note get rid of the monthly pet wake up item and put perm item to wake up pets forever.

akobihatav

It s not like what we say will change something ..you guys know that... right?

aymankorn

i suggest make some items a " 1 Time Tradable" only available by 1 trade then its binded i think that is fair for some players i just buy a tradable item once it traded to me it become binded that may fix d shop issue 

itsdktime

Ive spent quite a bit of money on this game but still missing a few major things its time for Papaya to let us sell or trade the binding items we already have the sealing bags let us seal things and sell them. Ive been debating the last few months of continuing to spend 300-400 US Dollars per month on this game and still no red wings or perp or gold dragon most rings i still dont have either. I talked to a guild member the other day about this and i said should i stop wasting my money each month on this game and just get a new BMW  i have the funds to spend but no time grind. I like many others are at a tipping point. Open Dshop to sell items to all and open items we have to be sealed and sold. And get Gold dragons back in game soon before i quit and get a new car.

KingS13e

100%agreed with the tradeble dshop items and making them ,also many of the drops ing tradeble.Totaly against Random boxes and years of farming 1 item espetialy when you have to spam only 1 dungeon over and over and over.We need new dungeons that we dont Hate and making us to spam em like we do with ib 2,Horor honeymoon,SACRED CLAW makes us do that).Not to mention that we already dont enjoy all of the others because of the same reason .I think that you guys boosted the game so much that it is imposible yo make this rite but i dont think we should be able to farm alone in order to keep the comunity activeIn my eyes every run in a dungeon e make should be profitable for us.I quit a while ago for this reasons.Droprates are below zero even with 50%egg and 35% talisman,spending weeks in same dungeon most of the time alone (since im strong enough and droprate is too low for me to drag some liwers with me)when i spent money in dshop for smth i need is worce than burning em into the fire ....the only thing left in game that is fun was the pvp ,pk dk and colo even those sux cause we are like 50 geared active ppl and it gets boring pretty fast+1 for the pvp system it made me stay here for 6 years but now it is not enough Pease

Troldeseph

It's SIMPLE!

D-shop should be "pay to get a head" not p2w!

However, everything you obtain from d-shop should become trade'able and remove all these insane amount of random boxes and implement "self-chosen specific items" an example, give me the ability to chose between the different blacksmith talisman to buy, instead of buying tons of blacksmith random boxes. I might be looking for a 40% blacksmith talisman, but hey it's random! so I might end up spending 50usd to obtain my 40% & the leftovers which I don't even need (waste).

NZX005

I am thinking of dual currency which is a big win/win for papaya and players. Players can either buy/sell items using dils or DKC. Those who don't have cash to spend can sell items for DKC so they can purchase items from dshop. And those who don't have dils but have cash to spend can purchase items using DKC. This way we level the ground for everybody paying and non-paying players and at the end papaya keeps all the cash and hopefully uses it to provide much better services.

ForumPoker

@NZX005

I honestly like the idea but that won't happen. It would result in papaya losing money.

Rather I would suggest a new farmable currency which is untradeable (just like old colo points or dk points) and can be used to buy D-shop items. It should be farmable in dungeons or even better in expeditions (new and challenging ones needed), not on open maps to prevent high lvs from owning such spots.

Drunkenkick

I'm pretty much gonna re-list the majority of whats previously been said - as I agree with a lot of it.

1. All D-shop items should be tradable*. We bought the item, we should be able to chose what we do with it.
2. Create a auction house/agency that allows you to place your items inside at the price you wish to sell. 
3. Show server drop rate/any exp boost next to ping.
4. Keep 'event items' permantly obtainable in game. Gold dragon weapons, Prime annos novus, Halloween ring.
5. *Have everything farmable. I.E Wukong costume exchange vouchers. Youll need lets say 1k. You're required to do every party instances, kill X amount of mobs on various maps = 1 voucher.
6. Bring Shadow Shield back into doomed maze - has the same drops as it was when it was 105. Literally of no use to anyone [154?]
7. ADVERTISE THIS GAME. Possibly one of the most important thing in this list.
8. Take on In-Game GMs. These GMs won't have the same powers as actual GMs but these players should have a direct line to GMs/DEVs so when any bugs arise these players can be informed and the information passed on in a more efficient manner. They'll be around to help new players with in-game information such as locations of instances, quest mobs. Certain drops. To help players in general with instance farming i.e sacred claw - a suprising amount of people still don't know how to do the dream powder boss via NPC running, Karons fire pot - without 80% Mob tolerence, at least 1 Azure Knight its impossible to farm. [Not that im complaining I personally love how hard this dng is, I feel/felt a sense of achievement when I could take on the bosses myself.
   
9. If you sell drop rate boosting items make sure they work. [i've personally spend a fair amount on these and find my rate is better without them]
10. Have a more fair drop rate. [I no-lifed karons for 4 days without recieving a single step 2 drop - with a drop tali/pots on]
11. Make leveling harder again. Two weeks and youre 180+. There's no sense of accomplishment in this what so ever.
12. Bring back the logout option.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

Zonble

100% agree with drunkenkick.